Historic vehicles to be redefined

Is it easier to ask for it to be left alone, or do we want to modify the current set up, look to reach a compromise?

what position do we want to argue for, I say if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

First quick and dirty draft of a letter to your mp, feel free to copy and tweak and repost so we can get a nice final

Possible slogan “If it aint broke, don’t fix it-protect our classic cars” smaller tag line “oppose the 1500km limit”

I use classic rather than retro because i think it means more to joe public, and i highlight the 1500km limit because this is the real killer, a lot of people can suck up increases in costs, but how to cope with a car that’s covered it’s 1500 miles, park it up for 10 months??

Dear x,

As a classic car owner I am deeply concerned by the proposed change of legislation to bring UK classic car in line with European legislation.

I ask that you oppose this change in legislation in order to protect my rights and freedoms to choose my own form of motorised transport free from excessive and unnecessary legislation, and to enable me and my motoring colleagues to continue to enjoy our hobby.

Classic car owners like myself preserve the country’s motoring history at our own expense, for our own pleasure but also for the benefit of the general public, and we ask nothing for it in return. Many owners form and join clubs to celebrate the history of their vehicles, and through these clubs provide support to the community through charity events, galas and motoring shows. I ensure my vehicle/s is/are legal and roadworthy at all times and i believe I take a greater pride in my vehicle than many drivers of modern vehicles. By driving our vehicles on a daily basis, we present a rolling trip down memory lane for our fellow motorists, a small nostalgic break in the monotony of modern travel. Vehicles that would not be deemed worthy of a place in a museum or private collection are given another chance to live on in the hands of a genuine enthusiast, who will often spend more than the vehicles market value to maintain it in legal and roadworthy condition. By prolonging the life of such vehicles, we also offset our vehicles exhaust emissions, as the energy that was invested in producing the car is not wasted by it’s premature demise and recycling.

The proposed placing of a 1500km per annum mileage restriction will remove any practical aspect of owning a classic car, vehicles that can ‘earn their keep’ during everyday use will no longer be able to do so, and many owners will be forced to abandon their hobby due to practical restrictions such as storage space and the increased cost per mile running costs. Vehicle values will decrease and classic ownership will decrease, in these austere times we should applauded for making a little go a long way, rather than punished.

I can see no benefit to introducing this legislation, only increased red tape and it’s associated costs. I once again ask that you oppose any change to the historic vehicle tax class, and allow the classic car movement to continue it’s growth, which in turn benefits the network of businesses that support classic car owners.

Your sincerely,


X

While I haven't read the documentation, from the quotes that I've seen so far, I'm not sure about this.

As far as I can tell, if you want free road tax your car will need a FIVA certificate, along with which you'll get a mileage limit or other restrictions. This will be fine for concourse trailer queens, for example.

However, if you want to use your car more, you can choose to do so, if you pay the appropriate rate of tax. AFAIK, pre-73 cars can still be registered as PLG, paying tax at a rate related to the engine size - although I've not tried to pay tax on a pre-73 car recently, i'm sure that there are still people that do.

The thing to note from the FIVA stuff is the mention of "historic" (ie deserving of tax breaks), with all the restrictions that go with it, but also the mention of "other old cars" which don't meet the definition of historic for one reason or another, either by dint of modifications or daily use.

Obviously at this stage it's all speculation - but I'd like to think that this is how it will happen. It seems to be how it happens in some parts of Europe at the moment, and does make some sort of sense to me. However, give the relative ignorance of our politicians in this area, we have to fight to get our POV across. We really do have to try to influence this change, for change it will certainly be.

Maybe we won't be able to influence it to our advantage - but we can at least stop it from limiting our freedom by ensuring that there is an opt-out from historic status.

As has been suggested, we need both the mass of regular-use classic car owners and the funds of parts suppliers on our sides. However, without a concise, informative, persuasive well-written campaign we won't stand a chance of persuading anyone. After all, we have ignorance, blind optimism, fear, and helplessness to get through before people will even accept that this will occur - and that's before we get them willing to co-operate with us.

I'm not quite sure of how to start - but I feel that ACE is in a good position to assist. However, with their current support levels they can't do everything - they need both manpower and funds to get more information out there, and more supporters to be able to get the message spread out amongst both the classic and modifed car communities.

Anything I can do to help?

I like the idea - and it's nicely worded. However, most MPs won't have a clue that this is happening - it's not even proposed legislation yet - and the 1500Km limit is sheer guesswork. Give me a minute and I'll have a go at a re-draft.

Kev has made a good point - this needs to go to our MEPs rather than MPs. Once we know what the EU suggest we can start lobbying MPs - if we jump in too early then we'll either be forgotten about or be dismissed as panicked nuisances when it comes around for real.

Here is my re-draft:
Dear x, [or To Whom it may concern]

Following from Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens' (FIVA) presentation to the Second Meeting of the European Parliament Historic Vehicle Group, I am writing to express my concern regarding the possible implications surrounding the implementation of FIVA's guidelines regarding the definition of Historic Vehicles.

FIVA defines a HISTORIC VEHICLE as a mechanically propelled road vehicle
· which is at least 30 years old;
· which is preserved and maintained in a historically correct condition;
· which is not used as means of daily transport;
· and which is therefore a part of our technical and cultural heritage.

There are many vehicles in existance which meet only part of this definition. These vehicles are over 30 years old, and many are preserved and maintained in an historically correct condition, but many of them are in use as a means of daily transport. At present, many of these vehicles in the UK are registered using the 'Historic' taxation class, giving the benefit of a Vehicle Excise Duty rate of Nil whilst not imposing any restrictions on the use of the vehicle.

I am concerned that the implementation of the FIVA definition of Historic Vehicles may cause restrictions to be imposed on the use of any vehicle over 30 years old - preventing their use as a means of daily transport - so that such vehicles meet the definition of an Historic Vehicle.

FIVA recognises the existance of older vehicles not meeting their definition of Historic Vehicles - the update provided to the FBHVC by the EPPA (FIVA's Lobbying service) states that it is attempting to explain "why historic vehicles should be treated differently to all other vehicles, especially to all other ‘older’ vehicles".

I appreciate that providing a means for owners of older vehicles to "opt-out" of Historic status would remove the privileges associated with owning an Historic Vehicle - notably the common reduction in the rates of VED paid - but many would welcome the opportunity to use their vehicles as and when they see fit.

Any restriction on use - be it a mileage cap, a permit system or detection of regular use by other means - would remove any practical aspect of owning a "classic car" over 30 years old, resulting in vehicles that currently ‘earn their keep’ during everyday use not being able to do so. This would result in many owners being forced to abandon their hobby due to practical considerations such as storage space and increased per-mile running costs. following the introduction of such restrictions, the values of affected vehicles may be reduced.

Owners of older vehicles like myself preserve a small part of the country’s motoring history at our own expense, mainly for our own pleasure but also for the benefit of the general public, and we ask for nothing in return. Many owners form and join clubs to celebrate the history of their vehicles, and through these clubs provide support to the community through charity events, galas and motoring shows. By driving our vehicles on a daily basis, we present a rolling trip down memory lane for our fellow motorists, a small nostalgic break in the monotony of modern travel.

I, along with most other classic car owners, ensure that our vehicle/s is/are legal and roadworthy at all times and I believe I take a greater pride in my vehicle than many drivers of more modern vehicles. Vehicles that would not be deemed worthy of a place in a museum or private collection are given another chance to live on in the hands of a genuine enthusiast, who will often spend more than the vehicles market value to maintain it in legal and roadworthy condition. This in turn supports the wide range of classic car spares and restoration buisiness - most of which are small firms of the sort driving the economy in this harsh economic climate.

I can see no real benefit to restricting the use of older vehicles, only increased red tape with the associated costs, and a restriction of personal freedoms that are currently enjoyed by so many. I once again ask that you oppose the imposition of any restrictions to use of older vehicles, and allow the classic car movement to both continue it’s support of small businesses, comunities and charities and enjoy the vehicles for what they are.

Your sincerely, [or Yours Faithfully, if using 'to whom...']


X

so we need a broader slogan....

"if it aint broke, don't fix it
keep classic car use unrestricted" ?

Sounds like a good idea to me .

Transplants?

Stickers please.
And to add to what several people said before, I'm more than happy to pay tax rather than have the restriction!

BRAVO! Magnificently worded! What are you studying dude?

www.theyworkforyou.com/

your postcode = your mp details, email or snail a letter if you feel so inclined

Can anybody tell me how the classic car registration and use works currently in the EU member states? I did a quick search on google but came up with nothing. A country by country rundown would be good, to give us an idea of what me might be getting into