foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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I am trying to replicate the corroded metal fuel pipes on my 1974 Daimler Double Six VDP. This return pipe (from engine under passenger side of car back to boot) has a join under the rear seat. It is a nice robust neat design comprising a brass(?) male threaded fitting brazed/soldered to the front pipe and a female threaded nut on the rear pipe with an olive in between. In practise the olive is fixed on the rear pipe. Despite checking lots of data re threads I can't find a match for this. The thread diamter is 1/2". It has 24TPI and lastly the spanner size is 5/16W (the distance across flats for this is 19/32 I reckon) 5/16 Whitworth is the only spanner that fits 5/16W spanner is wider than 9/16th but less than 5/8. probably 19/32nut unscrewed reveals olive24TPI
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Last Edit: Jan 6, 2018 11:00:53 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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hi Foxy think you've got an american pipe thread, l'll check
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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After doing some digging through the archives (my Dad's brain) I thought we had it with the old British 'Brass thread'. But that comes back with 26tpi. Dug a little further for the spec on the archaic 'Enots' Thread and I think we have a winner; 1/2" x 24TPI. Also came in 9/16". Alas I can find no more on it atm. Even the 'Machinery Handbook' has nothing on it. The most info I can find is these thread gauges. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-gauges-9-16-1-2-enots-thread-gauge-/110716294026Fittings are still available tho
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,747
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The nearest I know of is 1/2" x 26tpi BBT, British brass thread, long defunct non preferred size. A thread file is probably not the best thing to guess the pitch with,
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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Hi guys. Thanks for all the reples. Always good to know there are other anoraks out there (no offence ) However...someone told me today it's just a standard compression fitting. Like a plumber might use. I suppose that makes sense given that its on a fluid pipe. The modern equivalent would have a 15mm spanner size and 24TPI is pretty close to the metric 1.00 At first I thought it might be metric but a 15mm spanner is too tight to go on the nuts. Still doesn't explain what the thread is however. Pehaps plumbing fittings like this only had one or two sizes therefore didn't need to conform to one of the recognised standards. The spanner size would have to conform to one of the groups however or they would've had to bring out a special compression fitting spanner
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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On a 1974 car, there is a good chance that is a metric thread. Metric fittings existed 40 years ago, I have noticed there was a changeover period where you find a metric thread on a whitworth sized union as well.
I also noticed (during the Mayday austin build) that BBT fittings and metric ones don't mix. Try a modern fitting on the old pipe - if it's BBT it will bind almost instantly.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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Rob Yep there it is on the Nogren thing. 2nd table down 5/16" tube with 1/2" x 24TPI MrSpeedy so its an Enots thread I've never heard of that but glad I now know
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Last Edit: Jul 12, 2012 2:37:08 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,747
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Ohh I forgot about Enots threads, a right Pain in the bum, Enots, were/are a company that made and supplied hydraulic and pneumatic fitting, its not a British Standard thread, its a company who introduced their own thread, bit like bike companies did, if you are stuck, I may have some in a drawer, Ian
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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simple answer is yes they can be un soldered, if it can be soldered it can be un-soldered, and re used if they are undamaged!
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Jul 11, 2012 17:54:23 GMT
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It will probably be silver soldered,It will take a lot higher temperature to melt the silver solder than soft solder,Also cleaning out the remaining solder will be a bit more difficult as silver solder is reasonably harder than soft solder.
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Don't become a thief,The government don't like competition.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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Thanks for the replies guys. I tried heating with a blowlamp but it didn't have any effect (do those things heat anything effectively? ) so not sure what to do to melt the silver solder. Probably easier just to use the new fittings.... this is 3/8" Bad Boy fitting on the fuel supply side. Same design as the 5/16" one on the fuel return side. this side probably sound enough to leave undisturbed for time being
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Last Edit: Jan 5, 2018 23:30:38 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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foxy, it could be just me, but could you not just buy a reel of 3/8" copper pipe, and re-pipe the whole thing?? on every old shitheap I've ever had I've done that and it's worked fine?
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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Jul 12, 2012 10:01:59 GMT
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Hi kevfromwales. Yeah, I could do that but will still need some sort of join at the points the factory did.....I think I suppose you need to ask 'why did they have a joint under the rear seatpan on both sides of the car?' I'm not sure really....
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2012 2:09:28 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,508
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Jul 12, 2012 10:23:30 GMT
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I'd be inclined to do as Kev has suggested and then you can re-do the joint with whatever thread takes your fancy. Hard solder can be difficult to melt out. Partly depends how hot it was got when first put together and solder will generally need more heat to melt than it originally needed to make the joint. There is also a big range of melting temperatures so it depends what was originally used. A small blow torch might not do it if the heat is allowed to conduct away down the pipes. The fact its brass/copper soldered to steel may not help disassembly either. These guys are excellent if you need soldering supplies and there's plenty of hints and tips too. www.cupalloys.co.uk/
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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Thanks for that Seth. I was thinking that myself actually...
The pipes don't join onto any of the components on the car with a threaded connection so, as they are only joining onto each other here the joint open to all sorts of options. I could probably just connect them with a rubber hose and clips. This system is used everywhere else on the car.....
I'm a bit of an originality freak tbh so I'm on a mission to keep this OEM
This leads to my next issue...bead rolling tool!
A bit expensive but I'm tempted. I had what I thought was a pretty clever plan to form a bead by compressing an olive on the end of the pipe then removing the nuts it was compressed with.
The differing threads on the pipe nut and compression nut I got have scuppered that plan for now however.
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2012 2:16:31 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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are you talking about bead rolling those pipes? how about using a brake pipe flaring tool.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,370
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Yeah. I was just thinking that a flaring tool might do the job but I saw a bead rolling tool on Ebay for under £100
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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