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Jan 22, 2009 19:25:56 GMT
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It's fairly common knowledge that Datsun built A-series powerplants under licence to Austin. However, I just discovered last night that Isuzu built Hillman Minxes under license to Rootes until the early 1960s. homepage.ntlworld.com/andymurkin/Hillman/Hillinfo/IsuzuMinx.htmlSo I did a bit of googling and discovered some photos of the engine from an Isuzu Bellet. Which looks very similar to a Rootes 4 cylinder as found in Sceptres, Alpines, Hunters, Minxes etc. Except that the Isuzu engines appear to have been continually developed and improved to include: Better flowing inlet ports Single Overhead Cams And Double Overhead Cams Isuzu also made other improvements such as doing away with the removable pushrod cover, thus strengthening the engine block. Interestingly, the top end versions of the Isuzu engines appear to have higher horsepower ratings than anything Rootes bolted together. Likewise Datsun continually redesigned their A-series engines to include improvements such as 8 port cylinder heads This of course is leading up the all important questions. 1. What other Japanese manufacturers based their engine designs closely on those of foreign manufacturers? 2. Is there much parts interchange between Japanese and foreign engines, particularly with respect to cylinder heads where the Japanese continued to develop and improve their engines? Personally I would expect that cylinder heads should be adaptable, because even though the Japanese did redesign the various engines they inherited from BMC and Rootes, it appears that initially they kept the same basic block architecture, which would suggest that the key factors such as head bolt location and bore spacing shouldn't be an issue.
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1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Jan 22, 2009 20:24:51 GMT
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Whatever you do, do not state, imply, infer, hint at, link to, or associate japanese auto industry development to prior western influences.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Jan 22, 2009 21:02:12 GMT
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Nissan did build licensed A-series'.....until they realised they could refine it and make it ten times better and subsequently didnt need the license!
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Your car is not 'epic', this thread is not 'epic'....the OCEAN is epic, the UNIVERSE is epic.... please stop misusing this word!! It would appear Hotrods are the new VWs - aint fashion funny! '69 BUICK LESABRE 350
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,517
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Jan 22, 2009 21:06:54 GMT
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Wasn't there also a Datsun/Nissan "B" series? I'm sure I've chatted to a guy at an autojumble about the possibility of putting one of the Japanese heads on to a BMC B series block.
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Last Edit: Jan 22, 2009 21:07:09 GMT by Seth
Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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fuel
Part of things
Turbo-Jet
Posts: 352
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Jan 22, 2009 21:24:18 GMT
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there's rumours that the Mitsubishi 4G3x Saturn series (which the 4G6x Sirius is closely based on) was initially based on the Pinto engine. The cambelt (early square tooth), mains and big end bearings are shared between the Pinto and 4G3x and early 4G6x engines. Bore and stroke are different though, along with the cylinder heads and oil pump drives which are largely different.
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VR-4 :: GSR
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Jan 22, 2009 21:32:54 GMT
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toyota's 4age is supposed to be related to the ford/cosworth bda I believe
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Jan 22, 2009 21:35:10 GMT
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Wasn't there also a Datsun/Nissan "B" series? I'm sure I've chatted to a guy at an autojumble about the possibility of putting one of the Japanese heads on to a BMC B series block. Seth, whilst googling the datsun/BMC connection I came across someone who said that they had pulled the rocker cover off of the B series in their MGB to find that the cylinder head was made by Nissan.
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1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Jan 22, 2009 22:59:05 GMT
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Yes, Nissan made both A and B series engines - they also called a development of the B series the 'C Series', although it was a 1.8-ish 4 banger.
Interesting thought for getting improved performance from old lumps of British Iron.
James
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Nissan's A-Series has little/nothing to do with the BMC engine of the same name, they share not a single exchangeable part although the configuration is the same, but then a 4 cylinder pushrod engine was the current way of doing things. The closest engine produced with a Nissan badge on to the BMC A is the first E series engine used in the early Bluebirds, but even that was the redesigned A, not a straight copy. The Nissan A-series is a completely new design. The name and the history of producing Austin cars under license confuses the issue.
They never produced a BMC B Series style engine as far as I know the C Series was a 1 litre straight 4 pushrod engine.
People need to realise early Nissan engines were often based on the designs of the Prince Motor Company, due to their superior engineering and quality, than on any licensed designs. Although Austin fans would want you to believe the Nissan's success is all down to Austin.....
It is worth knowing that Prince also produced cars in their own right before merging with Nissan, they are all rather lovely with Prince having bought designs from people like Michelotti ... The Skyline is actually a car of Prince origin, continued by Nissan after they merged.
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Last Edit: Jan 23, 2009 8:07:39 GMT by HoTWire
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Jan 23, 2009 14:14:32 GMT
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Nissan's A-Series has little/nothing to do with the BMC engine of the same name, they share not a single exchangeable part although the configuration is the same, but then a 4 cylinder pushrod engine was the current way of doing things. The closest engine produced with a Nissan badge on to the BMC A is the first E series engine used in the early Bluebirds, but even that was the redesigned A, not a straight copy. The Nissan A-series is a completely new design. The name and the history of producing Austin cars under license confuses the issue. I know that the Nissan and BMC A-series engines are quite different. However they appear to be very similar in size and I'm curious as to whether the Nissan A-series was a completely clean sheet design, or whether it is based even loosely on the BMC design. Given that people swap BMW motorcycle cylinder heads onto BMC A-series, and now Zetec heads onto BMC B-series blocks (see last months Practical Performance Car), I thought it was worth asking how similar or different these engines are. It's not unusual for manufacturers to base a new engine design on a previous one. For example the current Chrysler 5.7L hemi V8 shares the bore spacing and bellhousing design with the original Chrysler Hemi of the 1950s, these basic dimensions having descended through the A series Polysphre V8, LA small block V8s and the 4.7L overhead cam engine. Now lots of things have changed over the years on these various engines families (oil pump location, valve oiling, etc), but theoetically if you plop a set of 5.7L cylinder heads down on top of any of those engines, the combustion chambers will be centred over the cylinder bores correctly, and I would be surprised if some or most of the head bolts would line up. So all I'm suggesting is that whilst the engines may be very different they may still share some basic dimensions.
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1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Jan 23, 2009 14:31:58 GMT
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I know that the Nissan and BMC A-series engines are quite different. However they appear to be very similar in size and I'm curious as to whether the Nissan A-series was a completely clean sheet design, or whether it is based even loosely on the BMC design. Given that people swap BMW motorcycle cylinder heads onto BMC A-series, and now Zetec heads onto BMC B-series blocks (see last months Practical Performance Car), I thought it was worth asking how similar or different these engines are. So all I'm suggesting is that whilst the engines may be very different they may still share some basic dimensions. Yeah,.. nothing from a BMC A-Series bolts up to the Nissan A-Series. Internally Nissan A-Series matches the Renault 5 engine more than the BMC A-Series, bore, stroke etc. are the same between the two, thus R5 Turbo set up makes sense on a Nissan A-Series engine. I wish I could fit up more BMC A-Series stuff, it would make my life MUCH easier... wiki.datsun1200.com/ has some possible cyilnder head swaps, but mosts of them remain theoretical.
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I have a Datsun J15 engine, (only ever fitted to the pickup in the UK) that's basically a B series engine, even has an iron head , and I too have heard you can interchange parts.
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69 Plymouth Fury Convertible 75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door 84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 120Y Coupe 78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van 98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 76 Honda C50 04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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dugong
Posted a lot
One Of Us Will Live To Rue The Day We Met Each Other (Wire : 2008)
Posts: 3,292
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I have a Datsun J15 engine, (only ever fitted to the pickup in the UK) that's basically a B series engine, even has an iron head , and I too have heard you can interchange parts. Yeah, that's right, Datsun produced the A55 and A60 under license including the B series engines. They are better built to tighter tolerances and also flow better - so much better that apparently a Datsun B Series head on a BMC B series bottom end will result in a 5 HP increase.
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Jan 24, 2009 11:08:19 GMT
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I have a Datsun J15 engine, (only ever fitted to the pickup in the UK) that's basically a B series engine, even has an iron head , and I too have heard you can interchange parts. Oooh nice ,.. I didn't realise the J series came to the UK What is it in? They used it for a long time if I recall correctly...
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Jan 24, 2009 21:33:47 GMT
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69 Plymouth Fury Convertible 75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door 84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 120Y Coupe 78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van 98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 76 Honda C50 04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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Jan 24, 2009 23:30:11 GMT
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Nice .. So how much B-Series bolts up??,.. I guess pretty much everything? I have to say I was pretty much un-aware of the J-series engine's relationship to the B... but then I was also pretty much unaware of the J-series ...
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