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Oct 30, 2009 12:01:56 GMT
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Hi Guys,
As part of my ongoing (irrational) obsession with weight saving, found an old feature in Retro Cars about changing window glass to perspex pretty interesting.
Seems like a win - win, safer and lighter than glass.
Obviously on the flip side there is the potential for distortion, cracking, scratching etc. oh, and it costs £
So, now for the stoopid questions -
If the window pattern is not available off the shelf (which it isn't), is it still a possibility?
i.e. can perspex be made from a pattern? or will it not flex into the right profile as most glass is of double curveature?
Only thinking about it for rear side windows and rear screen, which presumably could be fixed with the standard rubbers?
Is it a can of worms?
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Oct 30, 2009 12:12:40 GMT
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The standard race-car way to do it is just to get a nice thin bendy piece, cut it to the right shape, push it into the right shape and screw it on there with lots of screws. Not ideal for street use, obviously. I'd only really replace glass if the car is actually used for a serious amount of track time, and the category it races in allows it.  |
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ThePollitt
Posted a lot
Fix up, look... at that car on eBay!
Posts: 4,696
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Oct 30, 2009 12:13:23 GMT
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I say worth it when it's done (I'm having some fitted to my tack car), but it will be a bit of work, especially with it being for a car such as yours. You need to speak to Paul at plastics4performance, he'll be able to help you out. Check out the website.... www.plastics4performance.comHope it helps, Chris |
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Oct 30, 2009 12:14:35 GMT
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You want Polycarbonate rather than Perspex, stronger and more resistant to damage.
Your local windscreen place will be able to supply you with some - they use it to protect the windows on police riot vans. Get a sheet, lay the glass out, draw a template and then cut it out.
In terms of forming curves you could go at adding some heat, my plan was to cut to size, clamp the polycarb to the window and then gently add heat and form the shape - havent done it yet so cant comment on how effective it is.
Ideally they should be bolted in, but if you got with something thats around 3mm it should be fine to hold in place with the rubbers.
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Last Edit: Oct 30, 2009 12:16:52 GMT by eightsix
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ThePollitt
Posted a lot
Fix up, look... at that car on eBay!
Posts: 4,696
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Oct 30, 2009 12:17:34 GMT
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You want Polycarbonate rather than Perspex stronger and more resistant to damage. Your local windscreen place will be able to supply you with some - they use it to protect the windows on police riot vans. Get a sheet, lay the glass out, draw a template and then cut it out. In terms of forming curves you could go at adding some heat, my plan was to cut to size, clamp the polycarb to the window and then gently add heat and form the shape - havent done it yet so cant comment on how effective it is. Ideally they should be bolted in, but if you got with something thats around 3mm it should be fine to hold in place with the rubbers. Be careful not heat it too much, it can make the plastic 'foggy' thus ruining it. Chris |
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Oct 30, 2009 12:17:35 GMT
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I've got 4mm PC (minimum for motorsport) in the 205 in standard rubbers. To cut it use a wood blade in a jigsaw and obviously you'll lose any for of window opening function so you'll need sliders too  |
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1997 TVR Chimaera
2009 Westfield Megabusa
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Oct 30, 2009 12:22:16 GMT
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Cool, sounds encouraging.
The rear side windows are non opening anyway so that won't be a problem.
Was also thinking about applying some security film type stuff on top to minimise scratching. Seems like a lot of effort but hey! all part of the fun isn't it.
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Hitch
Part of things
Posts: 427
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Oct 30, 2009 12:33:02 GMT
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You want Polycarbonate rather than Perspex stronger and more resistant to damage. Your local windscreen place will be able to supply you with some - they use it to protect the windows on police riot vans. Get a sheet, lay the glass out, draw a template and then cut it out. In terms of forming curves you could go at adding some heat, my plan was to cut to size, clamp the polycarb to the window and then gently add heat and form the shape - havent done it yet so cant comment on how effective it is. Ideally they should be bolted in, but if you got with something thats around 3mm it should be fine to hold in place with the rubbers. Be careful not heat it too much, it can make the plastic 'foggy' thus ruining it. Chris Yep, can bubble easily as well if your not too careful. |
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Anglia68
Posted a lot
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Posts: 2,049
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Oct 30, 2009 12:57:26 GMT
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It's also a good idea to cut some holes/slots in either the rear screen or side windows to add some much needed ventilation as cars with plastic windows are like green houses and are very unpleasent to be in if it's hot out,even in the UK.
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Oct 30, 2009 13:18:02 GMT
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I got my windows for the 205 from Plastics4Performance, nice guys and easy to deal with. And it saved about 8 kilos iirc, could be more though.
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Oct 30, 2009 13:31:15 GMT
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It's also a good idea to cut some holes/slots in either the rear screen or side windows to add some much needed ventilation as cars with plastic windows are like green houses and are very unpleasent to be in if it's hot out,even in the UK. Totally, this is a real problem if you plan to drive the car normally at all. Friend of mine used nets in summer on his Mk1 Astra. |
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Oct 30, 2009 13:35:25 GMT
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It's also a good idea to cut some holes/slots in either the rear screen or side windows to add some much needed ventilation as cars with plastic windows are like green houses and are very unpleasent to be in if it's hot out,even in the UK. Totally, this is a real problem if you plan to drive the car normally at all. Friend of mine used nets in summer on his Mk1 Astra. LOL at the nets! But if my front windows, are winding and glass, I am just replacing non opening and non ventilated glass for plastic. Would that make the car hotter? |
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Oct 30, 2009 13:39:01 GMT
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Hey the nets were my idea! I believe plastic windows make a car hotter than glass but need someone who understands science to confirm/explain. |
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,990
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Oct 30, 2009 13:40:32 GMT
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they'd be fine then as you can still open the front windows  perspex shatters, so don't use that, as said use polycarb and minimum 3mm. i do believe it won't seal brilliantly against the rubbers so some sealant may be required. |
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Plastic windows? Yay or Naytigran
@tigran
Club Retro Rides Member 142
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Oct 30, 2009 14:19:38 GMT
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I've always wondered can you not fit poly windows to a normal window mechanism. This is the only thing stopping me on the saab - the thought of not being able to open the window on a sweltering summer day. I big percentage of weight saving is on removing the window winder mech's but I mean just on the drivers side.
P4P do some fancy super expensive hardened poly which is meant to be scratch 'resistant' so i'm thinking that'll solve the issue of scratching the poly on the window rubber.
Any other reason, like the poly bending and not going up and down easily or what?
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Last Edit: Oct 30, 2009 14:21:32 GMT by tigran
1964 Rover P5 i6
1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak
1992 Micra K10
2001 BMW E46 316i
2002 BMW E46 330Ci
2013 BMW F31 320d
2018 BMW G31 530d
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,517
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Oct 30, 2009 14:28:56 GMT
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The vehicle from the Retro Cars feature. Maybe Bryn can add some enlightenment?  |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Oct 30, 2009 15:15:58 GMT
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As a friend of mine found out, it is physically possible to fit polycarb to the normal winding mechanism, but you MUST remove the furry "window licker" strips at the bottom of the glass else the platic will be scratched to ruination within a few ups and downs. He found that out the hard way.
This then adds the problem of leaving an obvious gap which looks daft and lets rainwater into the doors internals.
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1986 Panda 4x4.
1990 Metro Sport.
1999 Ford Escort estate.
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ThePollitt
Posted a lot
Fix up, look... at that car on eBay!
Posts: 4,696
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Oct 30, 2009 16:29:34 GMT
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At the end of the day, if your car is hardcore enough to warrant plastic windows you shouldn't even be thinking about winding them down.
Drill holes and sweat a bit, remember, sweat cleans the pores...so in a way, it's like exfoliating, but the manly way.
Chris
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Oct 30, 2009 17:30:08 GMT
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P4P do some fancy super expensive hardened poly which is meant to be scratch 'resistant' so i'm thinking that'll solve the issue of scratching the poly on the window rubber. Any other reason, like the poly bending and not going up and down easily or what? That is it basically; traditionally plastics have been too soft for it but as you say, harder ones are now available and are very expensive. Also, what EightSix said: polycarbonate like Lexan is much stronger than either perspex or glass. Lexan is pretty much win-win; lighter and stronger than glass, lower refractive index so there's less visual distortion, greater transmission of light through it... Only problem is it's more expensive. Drill holes and sweat a bit, remember, sweat cleans the pores...so in a way, it's like exfoliating, but the manly way. Finding solutions, not problems. Good man. ;D |
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1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary. |
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Oct 31, 2009 15:38:32 GMT
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At the end of the day, if your car is hardcore enough to warrant plastic windows you shouldn't even be thinking about winding them down. Exactly this. Don't ever do it on a street car, or even on a track car which is driven to the track, unless it's the last place you can look to save some weight. If you've still got carpet, interior trim, seats with more than a few mm of padding over a composite shell or any form of sound deadening then they should go first in my opinion. |
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