v8ade
Part of things
Posts: 947
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Following on from vivaboy's thread which are the better boxes
Type 9 or the Mt75 .
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V8 on open headers at full throttle "Heaven"
Jaguar xf SportBrake
rover 820 Turbo vitesse
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,684
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Type 9 Or mt75PhoenixCapri
@phoenixescort
Club Retro Rides Member 91
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Type 9 is normally pretty strong, but the ones from 4cylinder engines have a very short 1st gear, the V6 boxes have a longer 1st gear and so are a bit nicer to use (1st is almost useless when you have power and a short diff!) - but the input shaft is longer and requires modding for 4 cylinder Ford engines - if its a non Ford engine this might not be a problem. The type 9 also has a plung rear coupling so is easy to fit to live axle cars. Big problem is its heavy, even with an alloy bellhousing - but the bellhousing is removeable The MT75 is all alloy, but most have an intergral bell housing which complicates fitting to non Fords. The gear ratios are also much better than the Type 9, and the whole gearbox is a generation later in design, so more efficient etc. It is bigger than the type 9, so may require tunnel enlargement - a type 9 fits an escort without a bigger tunnel, an MT75 will not. But most, (I think the transit ones are a bit different but never seen one in person) have a NON plunging prop joint, making fitting to a standard single piece prop, live axle car imposible - it'll need a plung joint in the prop (so 2 piece) to take account of axle movement. The other thing is that half the ones that come up are 4x4 boxes, as in 2WD they were only used for the last few years of the Sierra (and granada?) Hope this helps  |
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carmad
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,000
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phoenixescort
you have just made me realise i have fluffed up on a build i am doing
i have have a NON plunging prop joint
i am fitting to a standard single piece prop, live axle from a manta but i am using a omega gearbox - it'll need a plung joint :?
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bmw156
Part of things
Posts: 796
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phoenixescort you have just made me realise I have fluffed up on a build I am doing I have have a NON plunging prop joint I am fitting to a standard single piece prop, live axle from a manta but I am using a omega gearbox - it'll need a plung joint :? lol you will soon find out when you drive it  I'm running all manta gear, so have the manta gearbox, prop with plunge joint and then live rear axle. as the axle compresses it will try and move the prop shaft, not good in your situation  |
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a type 9 fits an escort without a bigger tunnel, an MT75 will not. You either need to stat with an auto Escort or releive the tunnel with a hammer to get a type 9 into an escort. (I think the transit ones are a bit different but never seen one in person) Transits have a sliding joint in the prop, the box is different in that the gear lever comes out of the side of the box right at the front, but the rubber dougnut at the back is the same. The other thing is that half the ones that come up are 4x4 boxes, as in 2WD they were only used for the last few years of the Sierra (and granada?) All manual mk2 Sierras and bugeye scorpios have MT75's in them, its easy and cheap to get a 4 pot 2wd box, 2wd V6 boxes are not really difficult but cost more, they are available in germany and some other european countries where they got the 2.9 2wd sierras. You can swop gearsets around, best set up for a light car is the 2wd casing with the first 4 gears from a V6 and 5th from a diesel, you get a nice high first, reasonably close 2nd, 3rd & 4th and high 5th for motorway cruising. I had a non sliding joint prop on the back of the MT75 on my 24v Cortina, I destroyed the front bearing on the axle, now I cant say if that was because of the prop as the axle really didnt have much travel with the stiffish springs, its entirley possible it dided becayse I drove it like a stole it and was putting dpuble the power through the axle I should have been. I prefer the MT75 over the type 9 these days (providing you don't need to change the bellhousing anyway) its lighter and a lot stronger than a type 9 the gearchange is better if you renew the gear linkage bushesa and the gear lever wont come off in your hand. The V6 boxes have almost identical ratios to the old V6 type 9's, and you can fit mechanical or electronic speedo drives to them depending on what you need, they have syncro on reverse as well, the box is a bit bulkier at the front but its also shorter than a type 9 which can help in some installs. Heres mine having a cable gearchange invented for it, normally the gear lever is 6" further back than that screw drver so you can see how much shorter the box itself is.  |
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,684
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Type 9 Or mt75PhoenixCapri
@phoenixescort
Club Retro Rides Member 91
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Jul 13, 2010 10:25:57 GMT
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phoenixescort you have just made me realise I have fluffed up on a build I am doing I have have a NON plunging prop joint I am fitting to a standard single piece prop, live axle from a manta but I am using a omega gearbox - it'll need a plung joint :? well I'm not glad I've ruined your day, but at least you can get it sorted before you break something driving around like that - as mentioned below by popuptoaster, transits have a sliding joint, as do some Landrovers I think (plus probably a ton of others) so you might be best off swapping to a 2 piece prop made up from one of those - I only realised this problem myself when looking into putting non sliding joint box into my Superminx. a type 9 fits an escort without a bigger tunnel, an MT75 will not. You either need to stat with an auto Escort or releive the tunnel with a hammer to get a type 9 into an escort. Oddly I managed to get mine in with just removing the standard gearbox mounts, but it is a bit tight. You've obviously got a lot more experience on the MT75 than me for all the Sierra's and Granada's produced, I never seem to see that many about, and on ebay at least Transit and 4x4 boxes seem to be a bit more common - but then I've not been seriously looking for one so mebbe they are just as commmon as Type 9's, probably more on the shelves at scrappies than Type 9's given they're newer. |
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Jul 13, 2010 11:06:34 GMT
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i guess it helps me ol mans mate breaks mk3 grannys and scorpios and i was well into sierras for a while, i bought the scorp donor car for my van for 200 quid so what with getting 80 back on weighing in the shell i paid 120 quid for a 125bhp engine and 5 speed box and i don't have to faff about joining them together, would have cost more to fit a 5 speed type 9 to the tranists pinto and it would have been slower and used a lot more fuel.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Jul 13, 2010 11:36:40 GMT
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the mt75 is a FAR FAR stronger box, look at anybody running a 24v with a manual box, the type 9s don't seem to last long and the mt75s take all sorts of abuse and go forever..
I happen to have a good 2wd mt75 box for sale from a sierra twin cam for £20 if anybody is interested?
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,684
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Type 9 Or mt75PhoenixCapri
@phoenixescort
Club Retro Rides Member 91
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Jul 13, 2010 11:40:10 GMT
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the mt75 is a FAR FAR stronger box, look at anybody running a 24v with a manual box, the type 9s don't seem to last long and the mt75s take all sorts of abuse and go forever.. I happen to have a good 2wd mt75 box for sale from a sierra twin cam for £20 if anybody is interested? 20 quid?! Sold! As long as you don't mind waiting a 3 weeks for collection? |
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Jul 13, 2010 15:53:57 GMT
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if your being serious pm me, i don't mind |
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carmad
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,000
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Jul 13, 2010 17:56:16 GMT
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so you can get a 2 piece prop with a sliding joint in the middle ??
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Jul 13, 2010 19:18:43 GMT
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yep, Bedford CF's were using them back in the 70's with the slidey bit in the centre bearing, Transit props have the sliding joint in the back part of the prop, should be on smiley front vans i think, they are beefier than car props though, bigger diameter.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Jul 13, 2010 19:27:36 GMT
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the mt75 is a FAR FAR stronger box, look at anybody running a 24v with a manual box, the type 9s don't seem to last long and the mt75s take all sorts of abuse and go forever.. I happen to have a good 2wd mt75 box for sale from a sierra twin cam for £20 if anybody is interested? they don't use a normal mt75 when doing the 24v conversion, they make a hybrid box to take the torque  |
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Jul 13, 2010 19:40:21 GMT
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the hybrid box is only built because finding a 2wd V6 box is difficult in the UK, its just a 4x4 V6 front half and gears with the 4 pot back half on it to lose the transfer box for the fwd. they are no stronger, i had a proper 2wd V6 box on mine but they look the same as a hybrid box.  A stock MT75 will heandle 200bhp and plenty of torque easily, the 4x4 Cossies have MT75s. |
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Jul 13, 2010 20:44:47 GMT
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ah, seems i have been mis-informed, you learn something new every day |
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Jul 13, 2010 23:29:15 GMT
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no mt75 has a removeable bellhousing,
the sliding jonit is only to allow easy removel it has a lock nut to hold it once fitted.
the transit mt 75 is a completely different box.
the mt 75 has manual speedo drive & an elec speed sensor.
mt 75 is only fitted to twincam & V6 4x4 mk2 sierra's
the cvh & ohc allways used the type 9 & the 1.8 td uses a V6 type 9 with different ratio's
the 4cyl boxs use the same bolt pattern but to fit a type 9 to a twincam requires a 10mm spaceing between eng & box ,& stater & box.
only type 9 equiped mk3 granada's had an elec speedo drive. & newer transits
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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carmad
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,000
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Jul 16, 2010 14:02:50 GMT
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yep, Bedford CF's were using them back in the 70's with the slidey bit in the centre bearing, Transit props have the sliding joint in the back part of the prop, should be on smiley front vans I think, they are beefier than car props though, bigger diameter. don't surpose you have one ? |
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Jul 16, 2010 19:52:54 GMT
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nope, will need one myself eventually for my van.
I always forget about the smaller engined Sierras using the type 9, never bothered buying one i suppose is the reason.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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carmad
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,000
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correct me if i am wrong but morris marinas had a sliding propshaft didnt they ?
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Jul 19, 2010 11:17:55 GMT
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no mt75 has a removeable bellhousing, the sliding jonit is only to allow easy removel it has a lock nut to hold it once fitted. the transit mt 75 is a completely different box. the mt 75 has manual speedo drive & an elec speed sensor. mt 75 is only fitted to twincam & V6 4x4 mk2 sierra's the cvh & ohc allways used the type 9 & the 1.8 td uses a V6 type 9 with different ratio's the 4cyl boxs use the same bolt pattern but to fit a type 9 to a twincam requires a 10mm spaceing between eng & box ,& stater & box. only type 9 equiped mk3 granada's had an elec speedo drive. & newer transits Technically the bellhousing is removable, its the front half of the box. Also your fogetting the scorpio 2.5TD mt75 with all the same ratios as the v6 box but with a longer 5th, it is favourite for the 24v conversions. |
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