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I've done a teeny tiny bit of welding in the past, I think it was with an old gas Mig set up, I can't exactly remember, and it's a skill I never really chased up but that I'm in a position to want to again.
I'm a hands-on type of guy with learning new skills, I seem to learn best by doing rather than reading. I've had a browse online and found I can take a welding course at the local college (Chesterfield) but that courses don't appear to start until September, which is ages away. My other half also has an electric non-gas Mig welder in his garage gathering dust I'm trying to snaffle to practice with.
So here's the thing, what's my best option? Anything that costs money will just take me a bit longer to sort out, the more money it costs the longer it takes (obviously). I can't go out and buy a welder for a month or two at least (unless work is phenominally good to me) but I don't even know where to begin with what to buy and what to avoid.
I know I'm wanting a welder to do some fabrication and repair to the Polo, and I'll want it for other projects further down the line. I'd also like something that'll allow me to do other things like the gate and garage frame repairs that need doing.
Is it worth taking a course, or am I best just buying a welder and practicing on scrap? I also wonder if I took a college course that I might be able to practice on my car and get my car fixed/modified at the same time.
In short:
- Want to learn to weld for car body repair and modification, hobby not pro.
- What welder is good as a starter
- Is a college course worth taking
- Is it likely a college would let me practice my welding on my own car so I could get the work done with supervision and in a nice space
- What other equipment besides the welding machine do I need
- Do you have to use a gas welder, or will a non-gas suffice
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www.mig-welding.co.uk read. it explains fluxcored welders like what you have, the how, the what, the where. read a bit more 
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suggest any of these welders - www.weldequip.com/mig-welders.htm what's the budget? gas is always better. so long as it's the right gas (argon/CO2 mix) i wouldn't bother with the college course if it costs money, you'll pick it up V.fast. save your pennies, put it towards consumables/welder/gauntlets/mask/gas re the supervision: maybe, but i would think unlikely. you can do it with non-gas, but you're limiting yourself...alot! for the effort, suck it up and get the gas. |
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When I was made redundant a while back, after a while I asked the Dole about welding as it's something I always wanted to learn and if it helped me get a job, all the better (it didn't because I'm an Undertaker now) The Dole enrolled me into a Welding course at college and I passed my City & Guilds levels 1,2 & 3 in MIG, TIG & Arc welding. The tutor on the course was a top bloke, Old Skool and really helpful to people who wanted to learn (not a lot of those wanted to be there as the Dole made 99% of them go) I came away with a good, basic knowledge of welding and even though none of it covered welding cars, what I learned on the course was easy to transfer to it- welding thin metal, welding different joints, warping etc etc. There's a lot of car welding info floating about on the net which I read through and I practised on old panels. Best thing would be to get a prospectus and look up the price of the course if that's the route you're going to take. I'd never welded before and the course was called pathways to welding. I'd say that 80% of the course is practical with 20% written and I know they do evening courses. God knows how much the course would cost. It was the first time I was out of work since leaving school 13 years before so I didn't mind doing the course as I'd been paying into the system long enough to have something back  I found MIG welding easiest, then Arc, then TIG. MIG is best but if you're outside you will need a wind break as any wind will blow the gas away and the weld will turn out porous. Arc doesn't need gas but you have to keep the weld clear of slag/curse word/dirt and there's more risk of making holes in thin metal. I'd go for a decent second-hand MIG welder with a bottle of argo-shield (Argon/CO2 mix) Machinemart do little bottles. Colleges do car body repair courses? part of it would be welding, I assume. |
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1993 Mercedes-Benz 190e LE in Azzuro Blue.
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prey
Part of things
Posts: 856
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Totally up to personal preference, I looked into college courses but found the same as you - that one didn't start for months! So I learn't from a friend by doing some supervised welding down at his, then bought my own welder and went from there (practise makes perfect and all that), mig-welding.co.uk is a great site also, especially for posting pics of what you're doing and getting advice etc.
I don't think I can offer to teach but if you needed to do any welding on your car you could come here and use the (modest) facilities - I'm only in huthwaite.
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Jan 13, 2012 10:12:38 GMT
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www.mig-welding.co.uk read. it explains fluxcored welders like what you have, the how, the what, the where. read a bit more Trust me register on the above and join the forum don't be afraid to post up your progress its as friendly and grown up as RR, Teach yourself its not that hard to learn mig/tig for general stuff. |
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Midas
Part of things
Posts: 505
Club RR Member Number: 14
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Jan 13, 2012 10:24:27 GMT
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Another vote here for the Mig Welding Forum, nice bunch of people.
Personally I'd pick up a second hand Clarke MIG, replace the wire liner with a new metal liner and buy a torch overhaul kit. Mine works better with .8mm tips on .6mm wire for some reason.
Gasless is a pain to learn on, go for a bottle set up and you'll be laying down decent welds in no time.
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Jan 13, 2012 10:53:06 GMT
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Hi! Go gas. Especially for thin metal, a gasless would be difficult, the thinnest gas-less wire is 0.8mm. I struggeled welding up a Polo with 0.8mm wire - much better with thin 0.6mm wire That said, I'm not a very experienced welder. Gas; go for a 18% CO² mix. It's affordable and good for thin material. Pure CO² is cheaper, but also more 'aggressive'. Argon with 18% CO² works well. I'd do it as follows: get a welder, and start practicing. If you feel like it's not fruiting, you could still book a course. Make a plan; first start to get a feeling for the welding process. And then start practicing various welding techniques. Butt welding, plug welding - these two are those you'll need most for doing repairs on a car's bodywork. Butt welding thin car panels is easyest with the 'step back' technique. Put a tack every few inches, and then set tack after tack, always as far apart as possible. And: take it slowly. Let it cool down between welding. Give it time. If you rush it, it'll distort the panel. Welding thin stuff (1mm, 0.75mm) is not easy... But no rocket science either ;D Take a bit of scrap panel, clean it (resp. strip paint) and just start welding, play with the settings untill you feel comfortable. It's a lot of timing work, listen to the sound the welding makes - you'll soon be able to hear, if a spot has good penetration or not. You'r sort of a 'heat manager' when welding. Put too much heat in the panel, and it'll blow through. Not enough heat, the metalwill not melt good enough - the weld stay's 'cold' and on top of the panel. The panel 'soaks' heat away from the weld pool. To a certain degree. If you weld in the middle of a panel, heat get's taken away 360° around the weld. That's easy. However, if you'r butt welding two panels,each panel can only 'soak' 180° 'round the weld. The edge of the panel is therefore much more likely to burn away,as the heat can not be dissipated. Which makes butt welding sort of the most difficult weld. Using the 'step back technique' welding next to a previous tack, you can use previous spots as a 'heat sink' to take away heat. Speaking of heat sinks; if you have a piece of copper at hand; this is a good aid for butt welding. Put it behind the seam and start welding. This enebles you to close larger gaps between the panels p.e. which would otherwise be rather difficult. Hope you understand my babbling ;D Practice makes perfect! Cheers, Jan [edit] if you can afford it, go for a automaticly darkening helmet! Holding the welding torch with both hands makes a world of difference! Very, very handy! |
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Jan 13, 2012 10:58:28 GMT
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Forget cheap welders, they are cheap for a reason, Clarkes are probably best of the cheap ones, though the lance is to short, being only 2m one, you really need at least 3m, Portamig is a good brand, uses common eurotorch, and can run a 4m one, you can only run a machine about 130amp through a standard 13a plug, the machine should have a maximum of 30amp on its lowest setting, for welding bodywork.
Gasless takes a lot more skill then gas, so is much harder to learn, Argon/co2 mix, but use (argoshield light) is much easier to weld with than pure Co2, but more expensive.
a good machine will make it much easier to learn, as it will work more consistently and be cheaper in the long run !
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Last Edit: Jan 13, 2012 11:04:42 GMT by ianboyd
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Jan 13, 2012 11:31:15 GMT
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Top tips chaps Bookmarked the links to read at length later but a quick skim proves it more useful than my own fruitless internet searching. I hadn't set a budget for the welder, I was going to find one suitable for what I wanted and then save up for it, I've learned the hard way about buying the cheapest tools and I don't want to make that mistake with a welder. Before I looked at the list I was expecting to pay £200-300 for good basic new machine, but I doubt I'll go above £500 unless it's something especially bargainous. I had been advised not to buy second hand and to avoid non-gas welders. The advise on non-gas welders was "Don't buy one, they're rubbish" so it's interesting to find out that the predominant opinion here is that they're hard to learn, not rubbish. Some of the safety gear is going to come in handy for other things, I really ought to invest in a decent set of safety goggles and gloves, they're not that expensive and it's lazy of me not to get them because I do know better. |
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Jan 13, 2012 12:32:41 GMT
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I'm using a gasless mig at the moment, as I'm poor. It's not impossible to get decent results with it, but it is bloody hard, especially on car body work. Patching up my sisters Ka for its final year on the road at the moment (I was intending to buy it off her when she gets another Ibiza as a backup, but having been underneath it for longer than the Triumph, it's getting fragged), nightmare, even on the minimum setting.
If you can, get a gas one straight from the off. I will as soon as I can afford it!
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Jan 13, 2012 14:16:58 GMT
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safety goggles? you'll need a proper welding helmet or you'll scar your retinas.
with non-gas welders, like you've cottoned on-to, they're not 'rubbish' per-se, it's just it's ALOT harder to get a clean weld as the shield is locked up in the wire, hence 'flux-core' and is released as it arcs, no substitute for a proper shield of welding gas from a gas welder...you'll get far messier/more likely blow through/more likely get alot more frustrated with it than if you had gas. a pub sized cylinder on a car...it'll last you a year. lasts alot longer than you think.
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Jan 13, 2012 14:22:06 GMT
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- Is it likely a college would let me practice my welding on my own car so I could get the work done with supervision and in a nice space I doubt it - when I did a course they weren't allowed to have students brining whole cars in anymore although they had space. however bringing in panels to weld/spray, etc... wasn't a problem |
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Jan 13, 2012 15:21:55 GMT
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The goggles are for other general stuff, this has just reminded me I really should get one, especially with horror stories about getting metal filings in your eye from not wearing them >.<
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prey
Part of things
Posts: 856
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Jan 13, 2012 15:26:00 GMT
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Automatic welding helmets are quite cheap - like 40 quid and well worth it. Also a scruffy hoodie for welding in - my least favourite burn is spatter down the ear lol.....
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Jan 13, 2012 16:20:32 GMT
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The goggles are for other general stuff, this has just reminded me I really should get one, especially with horror stories about getting metal filings in your eye from not wearing them >.< There's a doctor coming with a needle and he pokes it in your eye to get the metal out. And you just can't look away... ;D (unless you faint, like I did  ) I have a Sperian Duramaxx goggle with a silikone seal to the face. Have not managed to get something in my eye again Also fits over my glasses |
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Jan 13, 2012 16:51:54 GMT
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I concur with with just about everything said so far in this thread so will just add a bit of personal experience. I've never used gasless, but my understanding is that it is essentially the worst bits of arc and mig combined  If you have access to a gasless mig (I love an oxymoron, me) to practice with then why not? It will at least help you get a feel for the processes involved. I did a college course that covered basic MIG, TIG and MMA and at the time I hadn't read anything into it so it was really useful to get an understanding of the techniques and basic theory. In hindsight, I would have been disappointed if I had to pay for the course and didn't learn much that I wouldn't have got to grips with myself or with the help of friends. Since then I've had the help of Area52 guys to help me improve my technique and a bit of experience from car repairs and making tat. Definitely use an auto darkening mask. They are cheap enough now that you'll just be making life harder for yourself if you don't. And arc eye is really, really horrible so anything to avoid that can only be a good thing. I started on a rubbish second hand SIP hobby mig, then another rubbish hobby mig. I eventually bit the bullet and bought a better quality welder, budgeting for a proper gas bottle (the little disposable ones are eye wateringly expensive and last for exactly the size of the small job you are doing, minus the last couple inches) Anything that Weldequip is selling will get you off to a good start. My budget started at £300 and I ended up doubling that after using a Portamig. The 180 amp will be £600ish by the time you hire a bottle and get a reel of wire but I forgot the cost as soon as it arrived! I can't remember the name/number, but Clarke do one which is hobby sized and comes with a regulator to run a proper bottle. It was about £330 last time I looked. My money would be on that one as a good starter welder. |
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
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Jan 13, 2012 18:13:11 GMT
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Just noticed the question - same anwswers as everyone else really... Join the forum - and have a look around their tutorial & forums. They also have a for-sale section www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htmUser Wedequpe on there often does good deals if you mention the forum (cheap postage or some helpful freebies ) Get a decent autodarkening helmet, no need to spend lots to get good quality. Avoid gasless mig, I use pub c02 and its fine for car bodywork. Clarke are one of the better budget makes (from weldequipe or machine mart), I've got a small Pro-90 but would advise getting something slightly bigger (100? 120?) See if you can find someone local to give you a crash-course, I found a hands-on training session from a mate to be a BIG help. |
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Jan 13, 2012 20:44:28 GMT
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I bought a clarke 151te turbo from machine mart. well technically my dad bought it as he has a discount card and we went on a "vat free day". but I paid for it. tho I am a mechanic and tester, all I had previously welded was rusty hangers back on exhausts. soon as I got it I jumped straight into welding in a wheel arch on my old e21.   |
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Last Edit: Jan 13, 2012 20:46:49 GMT by murran
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stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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Jan 14, 2012 16:22:19 GMT
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I'll post this back up, it's my thread documenting myself learning to weld. It may inspire you and there are defiantly lots of tips if you look through it. retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=57002&page=1If possible just 1 hr with someone to show you (preferably with your own kit) would get you started and would be a massive help. Having someone demonstrate a basic weld and then some guidance with the torch in your own hand will be all you need. You may not actually get it in such a short time but you will be able to go and practice from that point. PS. I realize that thread has gone a bit cold, unfortunately I have been distracted with other things over the last year. The Pug is still in the same situation (The Escort is still in use!) I will get back on it when the spring comes and continue adding to the thread as I go. |
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)
If you have access to a gasless mig (I love an oxymoron, me) to practice with then why not? It will at least help you get a feel for the processes involved.
