VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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Morning all,
I have an XUD9 N/A (Old Pug, mechanical diesel) that has started cutting out recently.
Always about five minutes after a cold start-up, when coasting into a roandabout or junction.
I know coasting is bad driving practice, but I'm a fuel whore and like to wring every last mpg from every tank.
Any ideas what could be causing the cut out?
Stop solenoid has been suggested........
Car bumps or restarts from the key with no problems.
Not a massive problem, but I'd be interested to know why it might be happening.
Learning is FUN!
Any help or advice greatly appreciated.
Cheers all.
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Last Edit: Dec 3, 2012 14:20:06 GMT by VND
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Does the problem still occur when the engine is warmed up ?
There is a cold start tickover raiser. It's the cable that goes from the head to the injector pump. Just like a thermostat it has wax or similar inside that expands when warm and thus releases tention on the cable and therefore lowers the tickover when hot. If this has failed then you would have the low tickover even when cold and COULD be the cause of the problem. It happened to my old 205 and easy to check. When completley cold the cable should be tight and pulling the lever on the pump. When warm the cable will go slack and the lever moved as it's sprinbg loaded.
Paul H
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VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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Does the problem still occur when the engine is warmed up ? There is a cold start tickover raiser. It's the cable that goes from the head to the injector pump. Just like a thermostat it has wax or similar inside that expands when warm and thus releases tention on the cable and therefore lowers the tickover when hot. If this has failed then you would have the low tickover even when cold and COULD be the cause of the problem. It happened to my old 205 and easy to check. When completley cold the cable should be tight and pulling the lever on the pump. When warm the cable will go slack and the lever moved as it's sprinbg loaded. Paul H Cheers fella. So far its only happened "once", not far from cold. (happened a few times but never more than once on any given day.) So it sounds like you may have spotted the culprit! I'll use your well described method and check it over when cold after work and report back. Many thanks for the help man. |
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Last Edit: Nov 22, 2012 8:14:28 GMT by VND
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Nov 22, 2012 14:26:27 GMT
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Does the problem still occur when the engine is warmed up ? There is a cold start tickover raiser. It's the cable that goes from the head to the injector pump. Just like a thermostat it has wax or similar inside that expands when warm and thus releases tention on the cable and therefore lowers the tickover when hot. If this has failed then you would have the low tickover even when cold and COULD be the cause of the problem. It happened to my old 205 and easy to check. When completley cold the cable should be tight and pulling the lever on the pump. When warm the cable will go slack and the lever moved as it's sprinbg loaded. Paul H Allways thought that was the cold start timing advance? when my cable broke on my LDV (pug TD) i had to manualy set the lever then start the van but the lever would allways spring back if i reved the van and stall till warmed up a bit, in the end i fitted a choke cable to it and did it manually (locking type cable), my P100 had a leccy version thats not wired up and it stalls but only for the first 15 seconds if i let the revs drop and only when bleeding cold (IE below zero). TBH the first thing i do on a diesel is change the air and fuel filter as a start to any problem finding, or at least remove the air filter and change the fuel one, for under a tenna it's allways worth doing especialy on older motors with metal tanks as they rust and seem to allow diesel fungus to grow more ? does yours have a heated filter head? seen these give problems when not working but TBH only in really low temps, does the engine blow white or black smoke when cold ? |
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R.I.P photobucket
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Tepper
Part of things
Posts: 381
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Nov 22, 2012 15:44:09 GMT
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My old 205 did something similar and it turned out to be an air leak into the fuel system, is there any air in the fuel going to the pump?
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1989 Peugeot 205 GTi - stolen!
1983 Mazda RX7
1968 Rover P6 - also stolen.
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VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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Nov 22, 2012 15:46:09 GMT
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TBH the first thing I do on a diesel is change the air and fuel filter as a start to any problem finding, or at least remove the air filter and change the fuel one, for under a tenna it's allways worth doing especialy on older motors with metal tanks as they rust and seem to allow diesel fungus to grow more ? does yours have a heated filter head? seen these give problems when not working but TBH only in really low temps, does the engine blow white or black smoke when cold ? *UNdramatic Update* Cheers fella. Answers to some questions: It had new fuel filter, oil filter, Air filter less than two thousand miles ago. Blows no smoke at all. under any conditions. Its been very well looked after by all its owners judging by the service history. It starts and idles fine when the cars stationary when cold. Problem does NOT persist when fully warmed up. As an experiment, I stared it from cold and revved it high in neutral and let the revs drop away to idle. It tried desperately to "stall" under these conditions. Now, can someone draw me a big red idiot arrow at the cable I was meant to check for tension in when cold? I couldnt find anything obviously from the block to the pump. but then again, I am somewhat of an idiot. While we're on, can anyone identify the pump? Ive been told by different sources that its a Lucas and a Bosch, but can wind no makers mark to verify either. Unless thats a Lucas logo on the top? An engine:  Pump top:  Blurry bigger pump top:  Upside down numbers:  Unblurry action angle:  Zany and poinless angle:  Many thanks for the help so far. My old 205 did something similar and it turned out to be an air leak into the fuel system, is there any air in the fuel going to the pump? I dunno man. How would I check? Surely that would still effect when warm? |
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Last Edit: Nov 22, 2012 15:55:02 GMT by VND
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Nov 22, 2012 16:00:33 GMT
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 looks like a lucas pump to me  |
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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Nov 22, 2012 16:08:53 GMT
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Cheers SOC. That was tight when cold. Forgot to check when warm. clartburgers. I'll check tmorrow. Thought it was a lucas, but someone had me questioning myself. Anyway, all knowledge is good knowledge. |
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Last Edit: Nov 22, 2012 16:11:10 GMT by VND
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Tepper
Part of things
Posts: 381
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Nov 22, 2012 19:04:03 GMT
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To check if there's air in the lines you need a clear section of pipe between the fuel filter and the pump. Not sure if there's one fitted from factory but on my 205 deteriorated fuel hoses caused all kinds of problems including one very similar to what you're talking about. Yes it should affect the car at all temperatures but if it were me it would be one of the first things I'd check.
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1989 Peugeot 205 GTi - stolen!
1983 Mazda RX7
1968 Rover P6 - also stolen.
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VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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Nov 22, 2012 19:33:42 GMT
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To check if there's air in the lines you need a clear section of pipe between the fuel filter and the pump. Not sure if there's one fitted from factory but on my 205 deteriorated fuel hoses caused all kinds of problems including one very similar to what you're talking about. Yes it should affect the car at all temperatures but if it were me it would be one of the first things I'd check. Cheers fella, I will do. Just been for a run and checked the ColdstartTickover RaiserCable (tm) after. Its still fully tight. So I'm guessing that would indicate that its siezed? Someone point at me and make jokes if I'm wrong please. |
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Tepper
Part of things
Posts: 381
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Nov 25, 2012 13:26:43 GMT
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So far as I know, all the 'ColdstartTickover RaiserCable' does is raise the idle speed when the coolant is cold, I don't think it effects the timing. If the cable is tight after a run it probably indicates that the wax thermostat (thing sticking out of the thermostat housing with the cable coming out of it) isn't working and the fact that the cable is tight, rather than slack, means that your car is stuck with a cold idle speed, maybe 1,200 rpm? Does your car have a rev counter? Either way, if it's stuck on the cold setting, it shouldn't have any negative effect on the car apart from perhaps slightly increased fuel consumption. On my 306 with the same engine the wax 'stat failed and I just run with the cable slack, doesn't cause me any problems.
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1989 Peugeot 205 GTi - stolen!
1983 Mazda RX7
1968 Rover P6 - also stolen.
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VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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Nov 25, 2012 14:08:10 GMT
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After giving it another good run, the ColdstartTickover RaiserCable (TM) does indeed go slack as it should.
Going to try raising the idle. It idles steady, but maybe its low enough to cut out in the cold when the revs drop.
Easy to check anyway.
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mirafioriman
Posted a lot
My next project.......
Posts: 1,361
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Nov 25, 2012 22:40:35 GMT
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It is a Lucas pump (same as on my Xantia 1.9d) The waxstat does two things, raises the idle when cold and advances the timing by operating an electrical switch. Sounds like it's working properly. I had to replace mine as it wasn't. I'm guessing here but thinking that it possibly stalled as the waxstat disengaged perhaps allowing the idle to drop a little too much too early hence the cut out. If so raising the idle slightly might just do the trick. Replacing the diesel supply pipe with a clear pipe is a handy mod though as it allows you to see if it is drawing air anywhere.
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VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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Well having "Driven around" the problem for a while, I was presented with a windless and dry day. Best go and fiddle the car then. You know when people say "Always check the simple things first!"? Well lets do that. Hold on tight because I'm going to be using some pretty technical terms. That air gap between the back stop screw/bolt thing and thottle thing pump arm thing looks a bit big.  Maybe winding that out will help. LETS DO THIS!  Tightened the throttle cable up a bit (just by moving the clip) and it no longer cuts out when the revs drop, and is mar more responsive too (obviously). I'm sure its not the way the Haynes said to adjust idle, but it seems to have worked, and made sense to me (though I'm a retard). We shall see how it goes, havnt given it a good run yet, but its certainly now exhibiting the same symptoms when cold or warming, so fingers crossed. Cheers everyone for the help. |
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mirafioriman
Posted a lot
My next project.......
Posts: 1,361
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What you've adjusted there is the anti-stall. It does exactly what it says, stops the engine stalling when you lift off the throttle. One thing I can't understand is that in your earlier photos of the pump there isn't a gap between the anti-stall and the throttle lever, in your last photo there is.
Also interestingly (to me at least) your waxstat only raises the idle it doesn't advance the pump timing. There is no switch or solenoid on your pump like there is on my Xantia.
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VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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I noticed that too. But as you can see by the clean thread, the bolt things never moved for years. Odd. Maybe the engine was hot when I took the origonal pics, I really cant remember.
I'll keep an eye on it, see how it behaves.
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Last Edit: Dec 3, 2012 22:59:17 GMT by VND
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