Ford Fiesta engine upgrades? Clutch fitment Q

[ben711200]

some will remember my grand plans of putting a Fiat FIRE engine in my Bec's Mk1 Fiesta. Life has changed plans so I'm focussing on Volvo and keeping the Fiesta relatively normal. It's still dog slow though.

I'm not looking for much more power, just a bit more poke from something a bit less tired. It also needs to mega cheap and a 1 day sort of job...

The Fiesta currently has a 1.1 Valencia, which wikipedia tells is a development of the Kent crossflow. This gives me some logic and lineage to follow so I'm wandering what else would fit straight in and onto my 'box.

My figuring is that the newer I look the better the chances are of finding a good'n

Endura-Es were the last development of crossflows and can be had with really low miles for next to nothing, but can they take a carb and dizzy? I've seen a picture which looks like the distributer drive has been removed but I'm not sure. I guess I'd need to use EDIS? but then my 1 afternoon job is looking less likely..

Before that was the HCS. I'm assuming I could wang a dizzy and carb on one of those; my understanding is that it's just a redesigned head on a Valencia block?

Some other crossflow? More is more so just go for more displacement?

Or a CVH? I know NOTHING about these at all other than that the 1.4 was a 'lean burn' engine.

What would you go for, and in what size, considering budget and time constraints? Please excuse my ignorance to all things Ford

[jrevillug]

The late HCS that I robbed managment parts from was single point injection and EDIS - but I don't know if the block still had the dizzy take off.

I suspect that the earlier (pre-cat) ones were a Weber carb (in the same shape as the SPI unit) and Ford's wierd EDIS-alike self-contained ignition system (which looks like an EDIS module but has a vacuum pipe). That ignition setup should be fairly self-contained and only need 1 wire connected to the car loom to make it run (switched live feed).

I understand that there are differences between the Valencia and the Kent, so that it's not easy to fit a Kent in a Fiesta - although Ford people will know more.

[Mystery Machine]

I know very little (read nothing) about Ford engines, but you know my knack of finding you an engine for cheap and getting it removed etc...

Well how does a Ford KA 1.3 engine sound to you? For you it'll be cheap and arriving at a unit in Bristol conveniently in time for the next play weekend

It will have been driven from oop north to the unit, so any little bugs will have shown up (lack of power, smoking, overheating etc....) but all the signs so far are that it's quite a nice engine.

A quick look on Wikipedia tells me it is based on the Kent engine which is also the base of your Valencia engine. How much compatability there is between the two is something I couldn't begin to answer but the engine has your name on it if you think it could work within your plans?

How about an engine swappage weekend the weekend after the next A52 playweekend?

[THE_Liam]

I *think* a carbed 1.6 CVH drops straight in....

[ruishy1]

the cvh wont bolt straight into the mk1 fiesta, but its not a difficult fit. the 1.6 cvh from a mk3 fiesta sport gives you about 80 bhp. and its carbed so alot less wires
Your main problem will be changing to a five speed box, IIRC the mk1 needs a notch out the chassis rail to fit the IB5 box.

[rodney]

zetec , heres my little guide,

xrtwo.speedcentral.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=60072

[stealthstylz]

Jun 29, 2011 7:35:07 GMT Mystery Machine said:

I know very little (read nothing) about Ford engines, but you know my knack of finding you an engine for cheap and getting it removed etc...

Well how does a Ford KA 1.3 engine sound to you? For you it'll be cheap and arriving at a unit in Bristol conveniently in time for the next play weekend

It will have been driven from oop north to the unit, so any little bugs will have shown up (lack of power, smoking, overheating etc....) but all the signs so far are that it's quite a nice engine.

A quick look on Wikipedia tells me it is based on the Kent engine which is also the base of your Valencia engine. How much compatability there is between the two is something I couldn't begin to answer but the engine has your name on it if you think it could work within your plans?

How about an engine swappage weekend the weekend after the next A52 playweekend?

I PM'd Ben to say there might be a Ka engine and to speak to you lol. Wasn't sure if it was a secret project or not.

[Mystery Machine]

Jun 29, 2011 10:33:11 GMT stealthstylz said:

[Wasn't sure if it was a secret project or not.

It certainly won't be. Thanks again for getting it for me...and for offering to deliver it on the play weekend. Should be a fun build ;D

[ben711200]

Jun 28, 2011 16:29:18 GMT jrevillug said:

The late HCS that I robbed managment parts from was single point injection and EDIS - but I don't know if the block still had the dizzy take off.

I suspect that the earlier (pre-cat) ones were a Weber carb (in the same shape as the SPI unit) and Ford's wierd EDIS-alike self-contained ignition system (which looks like an EDIS module but has a vacuum pipe). That ignition setup should be fairly self-contained and only need 1 wire connected to the car loom to make it run (switched live feed).

I understand that there are differences between the Valencia and the Kent, so that it's not easy to fit a Kent in a Fiesta - although Ford people will know more.

Thanks James. The 'EDIS-alike' (ECS or something) looks to be a really simple setup with only 3 or 4 wires, which is always encouraging.

Jun 29, 2011 7:35:07 GMT Mystery Machine said:

I know very little (read nothing) about Ford engines, but you know my knack of finding you an engine for cheap and getting it removed etc...

Well how does a Ford KA 1.3 engine sound to you? For you it'll be cheap and arriving at a unit in Bristol conveniently in time for the next play weekend

It will have been driven from oop north to the unit, so any little bugs will have shown up (lack of power, smoking, overheating etc....) but all the signs so far are that it's quite a nice engine.

A quick look on Wikipedia tells me it is based on the Kent engine which is also the base of your Valencia engine. How much compatability there is between the two is something I couldn't begin to answer but the engine has your name on it if you think it could work within your plans?

How about an engine swappage weekend the weekend after the next A52 playweekend?

Sounds most interesting, especially since it was my first thought for cheap Ford based upgrades. I'll have to wander about the carpark at work and see if I can get a Ka owner to pop their bonnet for a few minutes to compare mounts and stuff. The wiry side is the only bit that scares me at the moment as it's dizzy-less and stock Ford management.. What age car is it? and when we chatted about this, I'm sure you said it would keep its engine for now. Has something come up to throw in? Thank you Bruce, I'll give you a call later

Jun 29, 2011 7:43:20 GMT THE_Liam said:

I *think* a carbed 1.6 CVH drops straight in....

Jun 29, 2011 7:59:33 GMT ruishy1 said:

the cvh wont bolt straight into the mk1 fiesta, but its not a difficult fit. the 1.6 cvh from a mk3 fiesta sport gives you about 80 bhp. and its carbed so alot less wires
Your main problem will be changing to a five speed box, IIRC the mk1 needs a notch out the chassis rail to fit the IB5 box.

I've read it's just a case of buying mounts for a CVH engined Mk2 to make it fit. But the internet is dangerous. I'll be keeping the 4 speed box because of my massive aversion to cutting. I don't give a flying one about top speed at the moment because I've learnt how much fun it is going down the back roads instead of the motorway ;D

Jun 29, 2011 10:22:56 GMT rodney said:

zetec , heres my little guide,

xrtwo.speedcentral.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=60072

Yeah... but.. you've ignored my list of criteria and just told me what you chose to do Cheers anyway though.


This makes me happy. I think I'm starting to understand the logic of people 'keeping it Blue Oval'. Everything seems massively compatible and ridiculously cheap if you don't mind buying from scrappies and ebay rather than Burton et al

[stealthstylz]

Fit the entire Ka wiring loom into the Fiesta. They're a similar size, and similar amount of electrics to run the rest of the car (other than the engine) i'd imagine (Ka has no central locking or electric windows)

Matt

[Mystery Machine]

Jun 29, 2011 11:20:43 GMT ben711200 said:

What age car is it? and when we chatted about this, I'm sure you said it would keep its engine for now. Has something come up to throw in? Thank you Bruce, I'll give you a call later

It's a 99 (T plate) so still got the Kent engine, not the later Duratec engine.

I was going to be keeping the stock powerplant initially, but just found myself unable to resist a punt on a Puma on eBay which I somehow managed to win for not too much at all!! 1.7 16V power here we come

I'm collecting it this Sunday on the way back from the Retro Show and engine removal follow shortly after that (can't have the car at the unit for more than a few days due to lack of space)

The 'project' won't start properly until after the Gathering but once September is here, all hell will be breaking loose on the KA. Happy for the engine to come out before that though if it's going to a good home ;D

Jun 29, 2011 11:30:39 GMT stealthstylz said:

Fit the entire Ka wiring loom into the Fiesta.

If the Puma loom can be transplanted lock-stock (minus extras like leccy windows, c/locking etc..) into the Ka then I'm happy for the Ka loom to find its way into the Fiesta ;D

After all, it's what we were planning on the K-series transplant into the Hustler so we know what we're doing with loom removal now (and I'm getting good at re-looming cars too!!)

Oooohh....lots of cool possibilities for the Fiesta ahead...

[ben711200]

This is suddenly getting VERY interesting ;D Gives me an opportunity to lose a bit of excess 'stuff' from the Fiesta too..

Will definitely be calling you later, Bruce

[all4show]

i think there was a Classic Ford Mag last year that was dedicated to the fiesta & one of them in there had a KA engine (think it used the loom aswell) think he was a member on the fiesta forums & i think it was at the at meet in scotland at one of the lochs

[moggyman]

I vote KA engine on bike carbs & megajolt. Should be a useful power increase without too much work.

[rodney]

ka engine has been done so aint too hard , if you can find a mk3 1.3 fez with twin choke carb thats a near straight fit with no fuel tank mods needed,.

[ben711200]

Cheers guys. I've provisionally agreed to buy the complete Ka engine and loom from Bruce so I imagine that the swap will be happening later this year. As I've said before, I'm not really after much more power, but will be researching simple tuning mods...

Mr Rodney, you raise a good point on fuel tank mods.. I believe I have a Bosch high pressure pump somewhere (actually, I think that's at A52 and has been for 6 months or so. I forgot about that..) so all I will need to obtain is a low pressure pump and a swirl pot to stop starvation and to run the return to.

[ben711200]

Now I have a plan, I need to plan out the bits that will make it a one weekend job rather than 12 hours and irreversibly in only to find a vital bit missing. On a sunday (a familiar problem at A52 )

The whole loom thing is fine. It comes out of one car whole, and gets draped around another car and wires shortened/extended as necessary. Easy (ish ), so it's more the mechanical changes to figure out..

Fueling has already been mentioned, but I don't think that's too complicated. It just involves 2 pumps and a swirlpot. The thing I'm trying to fathom at the moment is the clutch. I don't think many people are backwards enough to put an Endura engine onto a 4 speed box so I'm working off of the specs I can find.

A Ka clutch is hydraulic, 190mm diameter and has a 17 spline centre bore thingy
My Fiesta clutch is cable, 165mm diameter and 17 spline centre bore thingy.
1.3 Mk1 Fiestas and later mk2 1.1s used a 190mm clutch.

Does that mean then, that I will be able to use the Ka clutch with the thrust bearing from the Fiesta? I understand the basic workings of clutches, but I'm not familiar with bodging stuff together that isn't really meant to go.

[Steve]

The only other thing to worry about is the depth of the standard cable release bearing verses the hydraulic assembly and the amount of travel....but cant see it being a big problem

[ftz313]

tonight I've just put a 93 1.1hcs fiesta flywheel onto a w reg 1.3 endura fiesta.
I swapped the hydraulic clutch plate and cover over onto the 93 flywheel and it fitted no bother. Same size friction plate. The cover looks slightly different but I was in too much of a hurry as I started to it after work at 5.15 and did it lying on their drive!

What I would do if I were you is get a say 93 hcs fiesta or escort (1.1 and 1.3 same I believe) clutch kit and bolt onto your injected ka flywheel and you'll be 'sorted'

I put a 1.3 hcs carbed engine into a mk1 this year to get it sold (bought without an engine) and it was still accelerating at 95+mph but chickened out lol.

Anyway hope this helps.
I.

Just reread your post and thought I better update a bit. The w reg and the hcs into mk1 I did both had metal sumps. Some kas have alloy? It'll all fit onto you mk1 box as I suggested if you have metal sump and if you have alloy as long as you can get the starter to fit down in the normal mk1 position it'll be fine. When I did my hcs I used the std mk1 mount and a mk1 engine metal bracket. I never looked tonight but the fiesta is mounted around the thermostat-I'm unsure if the old mk3 type bolt holes are above the water pump on the endura but I would think so. It's getting late and a bit fuzzy now but i cant think of any physical dfference between an endura and an hcs. It's just the inlet manifold and a cat instead of a downpipe?

Anyway pm me if you are stuck. I could send you the old hcs clutch i have as it is a bit too worn to use again but would be ok for a dummy build.
Iain.

[rodney]

for the fuel system , id cut the ka tank up and put the swirl pot in the fezzy tank along with fuel pump , ive done a few and its easy if you can weld,

also for the clutch etc, id fit a 5 spped mk3 fez box to keep the rod shift an cable clutch , it will bolt in with some clearence mods,.