xlexx
Part of things
BMW`s garage / Zaz 965a V4 1968 / Leyland 400
Posts: 49
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Jan 15, 2012 17:27:38 GMT
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I have updated the article. Somebody can add some information about this question, aren`t?
Also I will be grateful, if somebody has helped with translation into English.
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maymotors.ru
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Jan 15, 2012 18:02:43 GMT
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Four door coupes aren't new: Coupe Saloon I'd say that any car with a deliberately lower (or slantier/sporty) roof line warrants the term, especially if there is another version of the same car with a 'standard' design. BMW E30 2-door saloons do not apply. Although I do think there's a case for the E36 2-door being called a coupe.
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xlexx
Part of things
BMW`s garage / Zaz 965a V4 1968 / Leyland 400
Posts: 49
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Jan 16, 2012 21:53:30 GMT
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Four door coupes aren't new: Coupe ** Saloon ** The interesting photo, and is possible more about it? Is it Bristol? 4door coupe at 70th. Hm... BMW E36 coupe completely another from E36 sedan. In comparison of body`s panels. And also according the standard SAE J1100, the coupe can be considered the car, the volume of back which passenger branch doesn't exceed 0,93 m³.
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Last Edit: Oct 8, 2012 11:47:43 GMT by xlexx
maymotors.ru
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Jan 16, 2012 22:17:18 GMT
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I have always taken the use of 'coupe' to describe 2 door saloons to be an american term. It certainly seems to be in common use there to describe cars like e30s and 2 door VW Jettas.
Personally I think of it as describing 2 (or 3) door cars with a shallowly sloped rear screen, usually sports cars, although I fear there is no universal definition. It seems to me that the definition varies from country to country, and with the internet and media exposing the different english speaking cultures to each other, it seems that the definitions are beginning to merge and spread.
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xlexx
Part of things
BMW`s garage / Zaz 965a V4 1968 / Leyland 400
Posts: 49
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Jan 17, 2012 15:57:07 GMT
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It certainly seems to be in common use there to describe cars like e30s and 2 door VW Jettas. but it is wrong. Personally I think of it as describing 2 (or 3) door cars with a shallowly sloped rear screen, usually sports cars, although I fear there is no universal definition. Somebody has read article? Could translate? It seems to me that the definition varies from country to country, and with the internet and media exposing the different english speaking cultures to each other, it seems that the definitions are beginning to merge and spread. +1. This question just the most interesting. Because of this I have begun this theme.
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maymotors.ru
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Jan 17, 2012 16:32:29 GMT
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Four door coupes aren't new: Coupe ** Saloon ** The interesting photo, and is possible more about it? Is it Bristol? 4door coupe at 70th. Hm... Rover P5b Available in 3.0 straight six and 3.5 V8 flavour. I'll just add another German definition of saloon and coupe W124 Saloon Coupe;
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xlexx
Part of things
BMW`s garage / Zaz 965a V4 1968 / Leyland 400
Posts: 49
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Jan 17, 2012 17:09:58 GMT
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Rover P5b Thanks! To W124 Saloon & Coupe is so right. Especially to w123 coupe (С123). Pay attention to a roof line..
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Last Edit: Oct 8, 2012 11:49:09 GMT by xlexx
maymotors.ru
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Jan 18, 2012 18:04:53 GMT
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but it is wrong. Somebody has read article? Could translate? +1. This question just the most interesting. Because of this I have begun this theme. I'm afraid I can't speak a word of Russian, and Google translate isn't producing anything particularly readable, so I haven't read the article my self, I'm just going off my own personal understanding of the word. I'm certainly no expert in the technicalities of the English language, so I accept there's a decent chance I'm wrong. I'm not sure whether you can really call the American use of the word 'wrong'. American English is different to British English in it's definition of many words. It's possible they've come to this meaning from the popularity of cars such as the mustang being available in a 'coupe' and 'fastback' version, the coupe being the model with a flat boot and relatively steep screen (also called a 'notchback'), and the fastback having a very shallowly sloped screen and boot, either saloon or hatchback. (Personally I would have said that in a lot of cases both variants could be correctly described as a coupe, but the 'fastback' more so if anything.) At first glance these 'coupe' versions are certainly similar to typical 2 door saloons, and it's easy to see how over time the word may well have spread to describe these models too due to their similarity's. Being English I'm not sure on the reasons behind their use, but it certainly seems to be increasingly popular for the word to be used in the American sense outside of America. Looking at the pre-war use of the word, it's clear to see how the notchbacks became known as a coupe, as the 'sloping back' that defines the coupe was often seen in the boot-lid rather than the rear screen, giving a short cabin with a steep rear screen, like the notchback versions of the more modern cars. Language can be a difficult thing to define right and wrong in sometimes, as if a meaning of a word is used by the majority of the population, then regardless of its historic use, or traditional definition, there is a fair argument to suggest that the more commonly used meaning is actually now a correct use of it.
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xlexx
Part of things
BMW`s garage / Zaz 965a V4 1968 / Leyland 400
Posts: 49
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Jan 20, 2012 17:52:59 GMT
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I'm afraid I can't speak a word of Russian, and Google translate isn't producing anything particularly readable It is a pity. Unfortunately my English isn't so good to make a high-quality translation myself. sorry. I'm not sure whether you can really call the American use of the word 'wrong'.... Being English I'm not sure on the reasons behind their use, but it certainly seems to be increasingly popular for the word to be used in the American sense outside of America. Why the American term? The coupe is the French term in origin. like the notchback versions of the more modern cars. Oh, no) Modern cars is another story. Earlier engineers created cars, built cars, now it is done by experts in marketing... The spirit of the car has been killed. Now, car it is simply goods. And accordingly all divisions are now much more conditional. As it is more favourable to sell, and will be called. Language can be a difficult thing to define right and wrong in sometimes, as if a meaning of a word is used by the majority of the population, then regardless of its historic use, or traditional definition, there is a fair argument to suggest that the more commonly used meaning is actually now a correct use of it. I agree absolutely. But we speak about other time, about other concepts. Therefore I also consider that it is necessary to name things so by what they have been born, conceived and as are named by the founder. The primary documentation of the manufacturer doesn't leave doubts in names. I think so.
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maymotors.ru
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Jan 20, 2012 20:00:23 GMT
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Why the American term? The coupe is the French term in origin. Americans seem to like redefining words, I don't agree with it personally, but it's definitely happening, their whole language has changed greatly over the last century, and despite the word coupe's french origin it seems to have evolved separately in its use in America in a way that it's hasn't in Europe. Neither a Passat CC or a 2 door saloon is technically a coupe, but I'd consider a Passat CC to be closer to a 'coupe' than a 2 door saloon, while an American may think the opposite. The word's evolved separately despite starting for a shared origin, and now the 2 cultures are colliding it's causing the meanings to merge. Oh, no) Modern cars is another story. Earlier engineers created cars, built cars, now it is done by experts in marketing... The spirit of the car has been killed. Now, car it is simply goods. And accordingly all divisions are now much more conditional. As it is more favourable to sell, and will be called. When I said "more modern cars" I was meaning cars from the '60s/'70s, when the cars with 'coupe' and 'fastback' options started becoming popular. I completely agree about modern cars, they're designed by the marketing department more so than the engineers, which is a shame. I agree absolutely. But we speak about other time, about other concepts. Therefore I also consider that it is necessary to name things so by what they have been born, conceived and as are named by the founder. The primary documentation of the manufacturer doesn't leave doubts in names. I think so. This is true, and I agree that we should use the original term in a lot of cases, but you need to remember that we're now talking about cars that in an increasing number of cases are older than their owners, and younger owners may not have been exposed to the traditional terms as much as people who grew up with the terms in popular use, so are more likely to use the modern meaning of the word.
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Last Edit: Jan 20, 2012 20:02:58 GMT by RobinJI
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xlexx
Part of things
BMW`s garage / Zaz 965a V4 1968 / Leyland 400
Posts: 49
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Jan 20, 2012 21:49:20 GMT
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RobinJI, it`s very interesting that you speak and talk with you as whole. It has pushed me on deeper reflections over this point in question. I knew about distinctions of English language and their americans variant. But I didn't guess, that the difference is so deep. I would think never that the etymology of words so differs.
I join to each word, told by you. Especially, about generations...
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Last Edit: Jan 20, 2012 21:49:49 GMT by xlexx
maymotors.ru
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xlexx
Part of things
BMW`s garage / Zaz 965a V4 1968 / Leyland 400
Posts: 49
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Apr 21, 2014 11:00:35 GMT
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Hello guys! It was a little puzzled with a question not factory high-quality constructions of bodies е30. I made a small selection. maymotors.ru/e30bodyvar.html Perhaps someone knows still good examples? Or on е21 something also special, for example
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maymotors.ru
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,608
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Apr 21, 2014 12:25:23 GMT
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Ha ha. Now that has definately been CUT. Makes it a 'real' coupé!
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