|
|
Sept 6, 2012 18:07:40 GMT
|
okay I asked around a while back about the best stuff to redo my brake lines , I was told kunifer is best
so away I went and redid the car with what I thought was kunifer , it was sold to me as such, butl it turns out its copper not kunifer
I'm reading bad things about copper is no good , banned in usa etc , but then its widely avail here
whats your thoughts ...leave it now its done or death trap?
|
|
Last Edit: Sept 6, 2012 18:08:16 GMT by steveo3002
91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
|
|
|
MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
|
|
Sept 6, 2012 18:18:21 GMT
|
Can't say for USA, but over here it's acceptable.
Copper is prone to work/age hardening, leaving it suseptable to fracture. Kunifer is a Copper/Nickel alloy, and as such is a little tougher and less prone to hardening.
That said, I've used both over many years and on many cars and NEVER had a problem with either
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 6, 2012 18:34:44 GMT
|
hmm good to hear you havent had problems , there must be thousands of cars running it here
i take it you just use the original fixing points to the chassis etc?
bit gutted as i thought i was doing a sterling job lol
|
|
91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
|
|
CIH
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,466
|
|
Sept 6, 2012 19:35:11 GMT
|
Nothing wrong with copper but Knuifer is more modern and likely to last longer, though a little harder to bend and IMO flare.
|
|
|
|
dooh
Part of things
Posts: 19
|
|
Sept 6, 2012 19:50:30 GMT
|
I always when needed replaced my pipes with copper and never had any problems. Just going to do my V6 with some. Not heard of the Kunifer ... think i will check those out before i start. Most friends have used copper too with np's ..
|
|
74 - Triumph 2000 tc....Triumph 2500 tc Ford Tina 2.3 Ghia .... Mk2 5speed Granny 2.8i Ghia X ... 2.0ltr Granada Scorpio / 2.9 V6 12V Granada Scorpio 94 ...ohh air conned Austin maxi
|
|
ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
|
copper brake lines? bad stuff?ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
|
Sept 6, 2012 20:39:41 GMT
|
The only issue I have had with Copper is when it comes to undoing brake lines (pipe snapping) but I am talking lines that were remade around a decade before I had my hands on them in addition to being fitted by people who probably rushed the job! The 205's lines are made of copper when I rebuilt the rear end. Whenever I have tackled them they have been fine . I have not had a line snap in service though .
|
|
Last Edit: Sept 6, 2012 20:43:28 GMT by ChasR
|
|
|
|
Sept 6, 2012 20:40:59 GMT
|
not too worried if the end comes off when I'm working on them ..just a bit scared by the storys that they might fail on the road
|
|
91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
|
|
|
|
Sept 6, 2012 20:53:59 GMT
|
I have been using copper brake lines for Rally cars for well over 25yrs and have NEVER had a single failure.Just forget it and enjoy your car and STOP worring.If it was NOT legal to use it it would not be sold let alone PASS an MOT
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 6, 2012 21:09:02 GMT
|
IME, Copper is very nice to make flares in, but Kunifer is a little less likely to kink when forming curves by hand. Cupro-nickel also has a slightly higher burst pressure and yes, is less likely to work-harden.
If you've fitted copper, don't worry about it - I don't and my car's got copper fitted - but if you're doing it again in future it's worth using Cupro-nickel as the price difference is negligible.
As an aside, cupro-nickel brake pipes were first introduced by Volvo as a response to corroding steel lines. Various tests in Sweden have proved that it's virtually as strong as steel (within 10%), doesn't work-harden, and doesn't corrode. One test used a length of 30-year-old pipe taken from a rotten Volvo in a scrapyard, and it tested as good as new. There's a reason it's still used by Volvo, and now Porsche, Audi, and many others...
|
|
|
|
fred
Posted a lot
WTF has happened to all the Vennies?
Posts: 2,957
|
|
|
Coppers fine, lets face it if it wasn't, VOSA would soon jump on it!
|
|
'79 Cossie ran Cortina - Sold
2000 Fozzer 2.0 turbo snow beast
'85 Opel Manta GSI - Sold
03 A class Mercedes
Looking for a FD Ventora - Anyone?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Just make sure it's well supported and it will be fine. its supported with the orig factory fixings ...mk2 golf front to rear id guess a fixing every 18" or so
|
|
91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
|
|
|
|
Sept 7, 2012 21:58:32 GMT
|
I have used copper on my cars and other people's cars for 15years and had no problems with it
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 10, 2012 16:06:36 GMT
|
Copper brake lines are a definite no-no. I can't believe there are still so many people wo just don't realise how dangerous copper brake pipes are. Whilst they are technically able to withstand the theoretical working pressures of car braking systems, they are prone, as already mentioned above, to work hardening from use on a vehicle. Vehicles can pass an MoT with copper brake pipes as there are no criteria for brake lines or hoses (incidentally, since the braided flexi-hoses aren't easily inspected visually, this can be grounds for refusal of a certificate). However, once the vehicle is used on the road copper brake pipes are subjected to vibration and pressure cycling that it was not designed for. This is exacerbated with pipes that are often not properly secured or are ill fitting and can rattle around more than the originals. The result is that brake failure could be instant and catastrophic as the pipe will fail at one of the flares simply popping an end off the pipe. Cars that have been used for rallying or any other motorsport should not have passed scrutineering as the 'Blue Book' specifically excludes the use of copper brake pipes as do many, if not all, club rule books.
It was banned in the US for these very reasons and if the latest batch of EU legislation goes through, cars fitted with copper pipes will be rendered illegal anyhow.
Those that have got away with using copper pipes for many years should thank their lucky stars that they have. If you're unlucky enough to have a prang that can be attributed to the use of copper, should consider the position of their insurers as you're technically driving an unroadworthy vehicle. Consider also a worst case scenario of injuring or killing someone due to a brake failure.........and having that on your conscience.
Do the sensible thing and lose those copper pipes....its not worth the grief for a few quid and a couple of hours of spare time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 10, 2012 17:25:47 GMT
|
yeah ive ordered cunifer ...its only like £20 in pipe and fluid to replace what i did , will be more labour , but at least i know i did my best
anyone else..watch out what youre sold , i just assumed i could trust the seller
|
|
91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
|
|
CIH
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,466
|
|
Sept 10, 2012 19:52:07 GMT
|
Copper brake lines are a definite no-no. I can't believe there are still so many people wo just don't realise how dangerous copper brake pipes are. Whilst they are technically able to withstand the theoretical working pressures of car braking systems, they are prone, as already mentioned above, to work hardening from use on a vehicle. Vehicles can pass an MoT with copper brake pipes as there are no criteria for brake lines or hoses (incidentally, since the braided flexi-hoses aren't easily inspected visually, this can be grounds for refusal of a certificate). However, once the vehicle is used on the road copper brake pipes are subjected to vibration and pressure cycling that it was not designed for. This is exacerbated with pipes that are often not properly secured or are ill fitting and can rattle around more than the originals. The result is that brake failure could be instant and catastrophic as the pipe will fail at one of the flares simply popping an end off the pipe. Cars that have been used for rallying or any other motorsport should not have passed scrutineering as the 'Blue Book' specifically excludes the use of copper brake pipes as do many, if not all, club rule books. It was banned in the US for these very reasons and if the latest batch of EU legislation goes through, cars fitted with copper pipes will be rendered illegal anyhow. Those that have got away with using copper pipes for many years should thank their lucky stars that they have. If you're unlucky enough to have a prang that can be attributed to the use of copper, should consider the position of their insurers as you're technically driving an unroadworthy vehicle. Consider also a worst case scenario of injuring or killing someone due to a brake failure.........and having that on your conscience. Do the sensible thing and lose those copper pipes....its not worth the grief for a few quid and a couple of hours of spare time. The entire automotive trade has been using copper brakelines since, well, hydraulic brakes were invented I guess. I have never heard anyone ever blame the material as a direct cause of brake failure. Also brakelines cannot rattle around. They can't even so much as vibrate on tickover or they would fail the MOT.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 10, 2012 20:13:28 GMT
|
raindance654 I would like to know EXACTLY what regulation in the MSA blue book and page number tht STATEs that copper brake pipes are banned.
Now having had a car tested today not at a gargae but by the MINISTRY and posed the question of using copper or even kunifer as brake pipes,the testers attitude was so simple tbh and stated that BOTH type of pipe are FULLY leagal in the UK and would be for the forseable future .
Dave
|
|
|
|
sparkyt
Posted a lot
selling stuff
Posts: 1,767
|
|
Sept 10, 2012 21:34:44 GMT
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sept 11, 2012 9:01:24 GMT
|
The entire automotive trade has been using copper brakelines since, well, hydraulic brakes were invented I guess. I have never heard anyone ever blame the material as a direct cause of brake failure. Also brakelines cannot rattle around. They can't even so much as vibrate on tickover or they would fail the MOT. Doesn't mean I'm not right...................if you good folks wanna carry on and use copper in your ignorance.......fine........but do us all a favour and put a warning sticker on your cars........!!
|
|
|
|
bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
|
|
Sept 11, 2012 9:12:20 GMT
|
Copper brake pipes are fine as long as they are appropriately supported and have no scope for movement. Ive used them on my cars before but always added extra supports above and beyond factory mounts. Although I won't use them on the Triumph as it has sliding wheel cylinders and as such the copper pipe to them is designed to move, in that situation id say copper is unsafe, in most other applications its fine.
|
|
Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
|
|
|