Probable run in with the DVLA, advice needed......

[stew]

In a nutshell, I bought a car just before Christmas and the V5C was sent off to Swansea to put it in my name, said car had tax until the end of January.

End of January comes and I don't have the V5C back in my name (that doesn't appear until mid March) and I need to declare the car SORN as its in no fit state for anything else. I try on line but found because I didn't have the V5C in my name that wasn't possible. I tried the post office and they couldn't do it and told me I had to download a form V890 from the DVLA website, fill it in and post it to them, which I did.

The more astute of you will have already guessed where this is going.....

Fast forward to earlier this month and I get a letter requesting £80 for a fine (reduced to £40 if I settle by 3rd May) and backdated RFL of around £11 (although how they work this out as they claim not to have got my SORN application I don't know).

I've written to them, stating what I did and acknowledging that they do state on the V890 to contact them if I don't get an acknowledgement within 4 weeks and in mitigation said that I have a demanding job, young family higher priorities etc and resisted the temptation to tell them I pay in excess of £500 for three cars per year, all paid in full, on time, why should I have to do their admin? I've asked for them to respond to me in writing by the end of the month.

Today I was speaking to a work colleague who has been down this road, tried the letter and a few weeks later got a reply from the DVLA stating they felt their actions were appropriate and instructed her to open a dispute. She didn't bother because it was too inconvenient and just paid up. I've not had that letter yet, but I guess I will sometime soon.

Have any of you guys taken this further? I'm not too bothered about the cash, its the principle of the matter. Is it worth pursuing and am I likely to get a positive outcome?

Thanks in advance.

[Lopez]

~Hi

Yes, I've had a very similar situation. They ignored the actual content of my letters and responded with generic replies, so I asked my MP to take it on. He was more than happy to do so and the case was dropped within a week.

[Deleted]

Ive just had a letter from the dvla with "LAST CHANCE" written accross the top of it for the exact same reasons...

Bought a T4 on 26th of march, Knackered bottom end so its off the road, Couldnt declare sorn as didnt have the logbook, And the tax was up at the end of march...

As soon as i got the logbook (supprisingly quickly) i declared it sorn, Fast forward to this saturday and i got the said letter, Stating that if i didnt pay id incur a fine.

Ive since checked online and it states that vehicle is sorn....

Surely their "system" knows that the logbook change overlapped the end of the taxation?  And i had no means of declaring sorn?
If it doesnt have the ability to notice these things then surely they need to write that into the system somehow?  Or at least some give/take in the way these things are dealt with..

I'm aware i havnt actually been fined (yet)  But I'm not holding my breath in considering this the end of it. I'm expecting to hear again saying i declared it sorn too late. At which point ill have to argue it around working hours...

Along with the HMRC they are the most inept useless bunch of gits around..

[Deleted]

I'm still waiting for a log book for the puma and sorn confirmation to come through for the mercedes,

a friend of mine is having problems with them at the moment as they have managed to lose two v5's and have no record of his private number plate that he is trying to get transfered.

ive found thats its easier just to pay up. the amount of time spent trying to write to them and phone them up just to try and speak to someone in the right department who actually understands the problem isnt worth all the stress and then they don't always sort it out when they say they will and you end up back at square one.

[VIP]

If you have completed and filled in the relevant forms and sent them by post, that is where your obligation ends.

There is nothing written into Law that you have any obligation to 'chase up' the DVLA to ensure they are doing their job properly.

The £80/40 is a Penalty Charge, not a fine. Only a Court of Law or appointed officer can issue a fine, and as this hasn't been seen in a Court, then its isn't a fine.

[grumpy]

Personally i would have got on to them when i hadnt got my logbook back .Ive managed to speak to someone before about a needing a new license quickely and i was given the number of a manager .I got it in 4 days rather tham 3 weeks .
I don't get all the DVLA bashing , its simple , threres clearly defined rules to follow and if you don't stick to them you get fined .If you think you might be at risk of getting a fine , ie not recieving your V5 contact them and explain.

[stew]

I gave the dvla the benefit of the doubt regarding the V5 when it came to making a sorn declaration as the christmas holidays could have delayed things.
Yes I should have chased up the lack of confirmation for the sorn but I had more important things to do and didn't give it a second thought, in my view the penalty they're attempting to impose is disproportionate.
I think I'll wait for them to reply and invite me to open a dispute and go from there. Further mitigation will be that its not had an engine in since the end of january, so theres no way I could have used it on the highway even if I'd wanted to.

[damageandy]

you have posted it and it has been served in the eyes of the law, you don't have to do any chasing up. They will send a few threatening letters to intimidate you, you can either pay up or ignore them, very slim chance they will take you to court if they did and you turn up and have done about 20 minutes google research the case will be dropped or you will win.

[LowStandards]

Ignore it, the DVLA have no right to fine you ad VIP said, its merely an invoice.

I had it a few years back, lots of threatening letters etc, then a collection agency who were promptly told where they should go and that was the end of it

[bazzateer]

Send them a bill for your time spent in trying to sort out their mess.

[mattfletcher]

And so it begins, their new system seems to be going downhill already. With all the sorn fines mentioned above I can now see where they're going with the new rule of not selling a car with tax anymore. The general rule is when ownership changes and the car is on sorn, the sorn is void and the new owner needs to sorn it. To sorn it online (normally don't get chance to go to post office due to having a life which involves working for a living) you need the log book reference number. Wheres the log book when you buy a car? On its way to or from DVLA, normally 2 weeks for a log book swap over. So in that two weeks they manage to sting everyone for sorn fines!!!!! Oh, and you cant tax a car online without being registered as the keeper. I had a fine for a van with no tax being on the road, I wrote to them explaining I no longer owned the vehicle. They promptly replied with 6 pages worth of court paperwork, my only saving grace was DVLAs own print off of the registered keeper which wasnt me. I replied with a snotty letter stating they don't have a clue what they're doing and I had highlighted THEIR own paperwork showing who the registered keeper was. They said to ignore any following lwtters. lol

[keithyboy]

Worth noting that all such things come with a right to appeal. As long as you appeal within the timescale for the lower penalty, they cannot charge the higher penalty at the end of the appeal process.

In other words, if you have to pay by 1 May to get the £40 fine and appeal before that date, they can't bump it to £80 if the appeal process takes longer.

Stick with it. More people need to stand up to DVLA bully-boy tactics.

[scimjim]

It is not a fine, or even a simple penalty notice (like a car parking penalty notice) - it is a Late Licensing Penalty (s.7A, Vehicle Excise & Registration Act) which is treated a civil debt due to the CROWN.

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) (Amendment) (No3) Regulations 2002 authorises by statute, the imposition of an 80 pound supplement in relation to late taxation of a vehicle.

The 4 week follow up requirement doesn't stand up in court, so google a few sites for a letter template that politely asks them to take you to court or foxtrot oscar.

Always send hardcopy stuff recorded delivery to DVLA!!

[scimjim]

Apr 24, 2014 7:43:16 GMT mattfletcher said:

To sorn it online (normally don't get chance to go to post office due to having a life which involves working for a living) you need the log book reference number. Wheres the log book when you buy a car? On its way to or from DVLA, normally 2 weeks for a log book swap over. So in that two weeks they manage to sting everyone for sorn fines!!!!!

They don't issue a late licensing penalty notice until 4 weeks after it runs out - so you should have had the V5 back and SORNd it online.

[bl1300]

I'm currently in battle with the DVLA for the same thing them losing letters. I don't intend to just roll over and pay, they have referred it to a debt collection agency which is illegal for a payment in dispute.

I have just contacted my MP and written to both the DVLA and the DC instructing them to take me to court where I will fight them by swearing an affidavit that the documents were posted as required and using section 7 of the interpretations act as my defence.

[LowStandards]

I honestly don't know why folk aint listening, its not a fine, its an invoice, ignore it.

Don't get het up, don't write letters, don't go storming government buildings, just quietly file it in the bin and get on with your business

[flat4fanatic]

Apr 24, 2014 8:33:17 GMT scimjim said:

Always send hardcopy stuff recorded delivery to DVLA!!

Don't waste your money they don't accept recorded delivery - probably because it'd get rid of their main excuse for being so inept.

If you're declaring sorn online always tick the box to receieve the email confirmation and keep it for up to 12 months.
I had the fine letter through eventhough the car was sorned and had email receipt, but it had been deleted off the online system. Sent them the confirmation email reference and got a letter a few weeks later saying they werent persuing the matter - they will never admit their mistakes.

[scimjim]

Slip of the pen - I wouldn't pay 75p to send anything recorded to DVLA! (Although they do of course "accept" recoded delivery letters)

What I should have said was send it from the Post Office and get a "proof of postage" (now called "receipt of posting" apparently).

Don't ignore late licensing penalty letters unless you are bulletproof and have the relevant proof.

[ejenner]

What if you forget? I've just seen this now and it reminded me to SORN a car I've bought recently. It's just front-bottom-ish the way the DVLA behave. The deal is, 'you must be a perfect robot or we'll fine you' - The ONLY reason I get DVLA fines is because I forget to do things. So just because of the kind of person I am I end up with fines. Sickening.

[ejenner]

Oh, by the way. Sometimes all you can do, when they refuse to be reasonable, is to register your protest. The solution, which I've used in the past, is to drag it out for months and months and months. Then eventually send them a really well sealed (so it takes them ages to unwrap) bag of lose coins, just less than the total required so they have to chase you again, containing foreign and damaged coins if you have them. Include some individually wrapped packages within the package itself with odd amounts and types of coins inside.