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I'm thinking about getting a W124 Merc (instead of spending the money on fixing the W123 because , well just because) but know they suffer from the dreaded disintegrating engine harnesses.
I asked about them on a specific Merc forum but to be honest the answer descended into trainspotting, engine model number nonsense, depends on the sort of fuel injection, along with "you don't want that transmission you want this transmission" confusion.
So, the question for the nice people on here is:
Is there an idiots guide to which models/years suffer from this issue?
Alternatively can anyone explain it in words an idiot can understand?
Thanks
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1982 Mercedes 280TE
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May 18, 2014 10:21:23 GMT
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Basically it's all gasoline engines from '93 on. The multi-valve engines. And the "engine number nonsens" quite frankly helps a lot to distinquish them; as there are p.e. two "200" models with different negines, of which only one has a problematic harness. Engine type M102 - two-valve, KE-Jetronic, and M111, four-valve, Bosch HFM eletronic multipoint injection. 200E 136HP 220E 150HP E200 136HP E220 150HP 280E 193HP E280 193HP 320E 220HP E320 220HP 200E/220E/320E are pre-facelift cars with facelift engines. That's why you can't pin it to the second facelift alone. But as a rule of thump; all "E-Classes" from '93 on suffer from this problem. Resp. all models with the "E" in front of the model name. Excluding the diesels and 4Matic/4WD models. $Matics had the old engines to the end of the production. And of course the '93 hybrid-models with the multivalve-engines suffer from degrading engine harnesses. So to awnser your questions it's simply neccesary to dive a bit into the specific models and engines, there's no way around. Swallow it. Idiots-guide marked pink. Which comes with exceptions as mentioned To be safe, don't buy anything older than '92. Quality went downwards rapidly from there on anyway... Best models are '88 to '90, regarding build quality. Cheers, Jan
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May 18, 2014 10:51:31 GMT
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Thanks Jan! I suspected you'd be the one with the answers I'd read something else about build quality starting bad, getting better, and then getting worse again. I'll look for something 88 to 90 then. Cheers, Doug
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1982 Mercedes 280TE
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May 18, 2014 11:42:10 GMT
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May 18, 2014 21:09:21 GMT
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How do they degrade? Are there any photos showing?
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May 18, 2014 21:47:56 GMT
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In the one pic I've seen the insulation on every individual wire in the loom was cracked into short sections.
It then shorts and causes misfires.
It is a case of when it goes not if, as far as I know.
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1982 Mercedes 280TE
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Thanks for that. Fortunately they don't use salt on the roads here so serious rot is not usually a huge issue - even late 90s C and E classes aren't known for rot here! At least I know where to look now
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1982 Mercedes 280TE
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May 19, 2014 10:06:49 GMT
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Jesus, that's awful. What a terrible 'feature' to install on any car!!
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May 19, 2014 22:55:41 GMT
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Jesus, that's awful. What a terrible 'feature' to install on any car!! To be fair MB probably had no idea until they started to fail after 10 years (or however long it took). Manufacturers artificially age product during development by racking up huge mileages etc but their primary focus is mechanical failure. I'd expect durability testing to find if a harness gets rubbed through, not if it disintegrates after 10 years.
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1982 Mercedes 280TE
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May 19, 2014 23:48:48 GMT
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1985, 86 saabs and volvos too, never had it myself but seemed to be a problem on US cars
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'98 e36 316i lux '97 mx5 harvard '87 Saab 900 T16s
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The idea was to use more eco-friendly materials for wiring looms. Which sadly backfired. In the truest meaning of the word; I've seen actuall fire developing from desintegrated wiring looms. Fried ECUs are also quite often to be found. If you don't know if the wirin loom has been replaced - it's best to not touch it - leave it be! A good location to check it is on the front of the engine, the cables going to the timing advance thingy are easy to check. --> data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/19/7520/9425712/m111-64257.jpgIIRC the new wiring looms have a date tag attached somewhere close to the ECU (under a cover behind the battery). It can cause all sorts of funny missbehaviour of the engine... There are actually 3 wiring looms; the main engine wiring, a smal loom runing to the throttle and the loom runing to the coils. All three can and will fail sooner or later.
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May 20, 2014 21:51:01 GMT
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I run a s500 which also has the cursed soyabean extract fall apart while you watch wiring loom and spent a bit of last week sorting /bodging it so my car didnt burst into flames as a new loom is a rediculous amount from the mercedes stealership The looms to avoid on the s class was 93 to 96 i believe and were the same for w124s
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It's ALL MBs from that period of time S, E, C and SL and other's probably too. At least in germany there are sources for aftermarket-looms apparently. I've not looked into that. Maybe google can throw something up. I agree, the MB looms are stupendously expensive... And manufacturing your own loom is - time consuming. Many of the plugs are not available individually and need to be recycled etc. - a true, royal pain in the
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May 21, 2014 10:02:39 GMT
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I priced a loom for the s class and the guy seemed surprised when i said i would pass at £1800 ish !!!! Went to maplins and bought £20 worth of heatshrink instead
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May 21, 2014 16:20:00 GMT
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I'm thinking about getting a W124 Merc (instead of spending the money on fixing the W123 because , well just because) but know they suffer from the dreaded disintegrating engine harnesses. I asked about them on a specific Merc forum but to be honest the answer descended into trainspotting, engine model number nonsense, depends on the sort of fuel injection, along with "you don't want that transmission you want this transmission" confusion. So, the question for the nice people on here is: Is there an idiots guide to which models/years suffer from this issue? Alternatively can anyone explain it in words an idiot can understand? Thanks If the car is running KE Jetronic fuel injections (mechanical injection with an old carb-style air cleaner mounted over the inlet manifold) you're fine. You can also look for the metal fuel lines running from the fuel distributor to the injectors. It will also have an ignition distributor. As previously stated, with few exceptions anything built after 1993 is suspect.
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1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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nyx
Part of things
Posts: 47
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May 21, 2014 18:49:19 GMT
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my 1988 230e is beautifully put together and no harness problems. if you are looking to buy a 124 id suggest a pre facelift as the ones ive had have been rust free. don't worry about engine size as the 4cyl are still very quiet and really easy to workon. as above k-jet or ke-jet are mostly trouble free
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