lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jun 18, 2014 15:00:34 GMT
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Reet then, we all love a bit of black smoke and poke! However I'm struggling to find any info on the diesel pump fitted to my mercedes 190 and thought someone on this good ship must know something. It's the normaly aspirated 5 pot 2.5 mill (i know the gains will be much small being NA but every little helps and a bit of smoke is good for morale...) It's a bosch pump. I hoped it would be just like the one you get on XUD(T) pugs and citroens but it looks nothing like. I basicaly want to know how to turn up the smoke screw/max fuel screw? Any help would be just swell
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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THE_Liam
Yorkshire and The Humber
If at first you don't succeed... HAMMERS.
Posts: 1,363
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Jun 18, 2014 15:12:26 GMT
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I'll ask my mate, he had a 190D 2.5 and he did this himself at my suggestion having had a few XUDs myself, however it made no difference to power whatsoever that we could tell, and it hurt fuel economy. I wouldn't bother myself, but I'll ask him
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Jun 18, 2014 16:49:27 GMT
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Turbo it, then you make proper black smoke.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jun 18, 2014 20:03:17 GMT
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I'll ask my mate, he had a 190D 2.5 and he did this himself at my suggestion having had a few XUDs myself, however it made no difference to power whatsoever that we could tell, and it hurt fuel economy. I wouldn't bother myself, but I'll ask him Cheers matie to be honest I'm not expecting it to do much other than smoke (which i shall reiterate, everyone loves...)but ill not be satisfied till i try. Been thinking of the turbo route down the line haha. keep daydreaming about simples things; weld a common turbo flange (lol) onto a spare exhaust mani, source a 5 pot turbo inlet mani and you are pretty much away i suppose
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jun 18, 2014 20:42:27 GMT
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I presume it's the OM602 lump if it's in a 190 (not big into the Mercedes model line-up), my suggestion would be to look into getting a genuine turbo engine as they supposedly have heavier duty rods fitted. Ideally an OM605 turbo lump, and look into making a hybrid mechanical injection pump using the original n/a mechanical pump.
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THE_Liam
Yorkshire and The Humber
If at first you don't succeed... HAMMERS.
Posts: 1,363
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Jun 18, 2014 21:29:37 GMT
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As far as I know the 2.5 5-pot turbo is internally the same as the NA, the only reason we didn't get the turbo in the UK is because the steering box is where the turbo would be on a RHD car. My idea would be get a turbo pump with the boost compensator off German eBay and bolt it on, weld up a manifold that points towards the front where there's space, bolt the turbo on there and then have a custom downpipe with a 180 bend. Loads of space for a front mount intercooler and the pipework. That manifold idea and downpipe won't flow brilliantly but it'll fit
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jun 18, 2014 21:48:23 GMT
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As far as I know the 2.5 5-pot turbo is internally the same as the NA, the only reason we didn't get the turbo in the UK is because the steering box is where the turbo would be on a RHD car. My idea would be get a turbo pump with the boost compensator off German eBay and bolt it on, weld up a manifold that points towards the front where there's space, bolt the turbo on there and then have a custom downpipe with a 180 bend. Loads of space for a front mount intercooler and the pipework. That manifold idea and downpipe won't flow brilliantly but it'll fit Ah yes, the steering box clearance issue rings a bell from my readings! Almost everything I've read about the OM60x series of engines says the n/a engines don't have the same rods, almost everything else is identical. I've not got any n/a engine stuff to compare to my turbo engine spares so can't say for sure. It's not like it hasn't been done before though, they have a good reputation for being reliable. Ssangyong Musso 2.9td have the same basic Bosch pump, and are easier/cheaper to get hold of over here
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They are by far not identical Oil cooled pistons, oil squirters in the block and some minor modifications for better cooling in the head. Bigger pre-chambers, different injection pump, different injectors. There are actually a LOT of differences to make them survive the turbocharging (remember: 2nd generation Turbos without intercooling). The rods are different, as far as I know the Turbo pistons have bigger gudgeon pins. And of course they got stronger head gaskets (which are sold for all engines nowadays for simplification). If you fit a turbo to a n/a engine, I'd suggest using an intercooler to reduce thermal stress to the engine That's a good idea anyway, even for a factory turbo engine They all have more or less issues with cracked cylinder heads. MB revised them lots of times, especially the early ones are bad. Finding uncracked Turbo heads is almost imposible. They can be repaired, however (alloy heads). Tweaking the pump can give little gains together with slightly advanced timing. Idealy you should have some experience - too much advance and it starts to nail and runs hotter. Max. fuel should be adjusted untill it starts to smoke and then back to the point where it just doesn't smoke. That's all the fuel you can burn - anything else is just wasted (unless you want it to blow smoke for ze lolz). With a turbo engine you may see better results since the turbo can supply a bigger amount of air, of course. All in all - have the injection timing checked and if neccesary adjusted (don't do it by "feel", use the correct pump timing device!). Give it a new air filter, a new fuel filter. Service the lift pump with new seals & valves (cheap & easy). If it has EGR block it (lots of info on g00gle). And then enjoy it. It doesn't get any better And depending on the milage it has done - I'd say if more than 150k - give it a new set of injection nozzles (they need to be set with a pop tester - give it to someone who can do this!!). Nozzles are not very cheap but make a huge difference. Many of these engines have never got new nozzles. They do run, still. But could do much better. Or in other words: give the engine a bl00dy service before you tinker with stuff you might not even have to. To get better performance. And if that doesn't net a difference - go get a turbo engine. In the end it will be better and probably not much more expensive then turning a n/a engine into a turbo engine That's my point of view to the whole diesel tuning thing
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jun 19, 2014 10:00:10 GMT
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Some wise words there guys I have got time for a proper reply as I'm at work, but basicaly I'm not looking at a donk swap on this as ive got a lot of projects and this is my daily, just wanted to make the most of what it has really. Servicing is certainly sound advice. Ive changed the main fuel filter after its first tank of veg, the pre filter looks new adn appears to flow well. This weekend I'm removing and cleaning the tank strainer. The airfilter appeared nearly new but i gave it a quick clean anyway. Nailing a turbo onto it should still give reasonable reliability as long as its fairly small and intercooled, i think even a 'weaker' benz engine is better than most others. The only thing putting me off is the design of the na inlet manifold having 5 sepperate fingers one for each pot going into the airbox. i suppose i could try sealing the airbox and using that as a plenum. If i can get hold of a spare exhaust mani and sump i can pretty much fab the kit and get it bolted on in an afternoon whilst still having use of it as a daily (don't want it to turn into a driveway languishing project...) Regardless though, i'll still need a bit of info on the pump as to where the adjustment screw is for max fuel as that will need a little tweak if i force feed it? anyone?
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Jun 19, 2014 11:37:05 GMT
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I've seen the std. Airboxes used for charged applications. You probably need a bunch of jubilee clips on the rubber connectors though The thing with boost is - the pump is "stupid" and has a max. fuel setting. This is basically a stop for the control rod. Boost = more air = more burnable fuel. Fuel = exhaust gas = boost. Turbo pumps have a boost-sensitive max. fuel stop - the so called ALDA. Which has a boost connection form the manifold and adjusts the max fuel stop in accordance to the boost level. Without ALDA you'r basically blowing out black smoke untill you hit maximum boost. If you adjust the n/a pump to not smoke - the turbo is basically a useless restriction in the exhaust, a rotary silencer at best... No fuel = no exhaust gas = no boost. Unless you don't care about laying a black fog bank each time you push the throttle you basically need a turbo injection pump. The whole governor on the turbo pump is different - so at least you'd need a turbo pump as donor or put it straight to use. There are ALDA conversion kits out, though. I don't know how pricey they are. Decisions, decisions. To go faster there's always the option of loosing weight Re: veggi oil; for this the pump & injectors actually require a different setting. And I'm not repeating it, last time I was flamed a bit for telling people that there's more to runing a engine on SVO/WVO than just putting it in the fuel tank. The internet is filled with info. Fast rule: the complicated stuff is the correct way I'm back in the shed tinkering with stuff - whatever you do - do it right or don't
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Jul 27, 2014 14:51:14 GMT
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To turn up the fuel you remove the back cover and turn the feed screw out. IIRC it's the one in the bottom left corner, looking at the back of the pump. Try googling for om603 or om601 instead, maybe you find more info. It's the same pump, but you don't have an alda to fiddle with on a NA engine.
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2014 15:01:50 GMT by dude
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