sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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RWD diesel engine for projectsowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Jul 17, 2014 15:51:40 GMT
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I've got an LDV Pilot gearbox in my turbo'd Rover P6, does about 2300rpm at 70mph in 5th, far from being low. I'm just basing that on the Pilot. Higher axle ratio? Final drive is 3.058, not massively tall and close to standard. The Pilot gearbox replaced an SD1 saloon gearbox, the only difference I noticed was a better change due to the R380 gearbox in the LDV being a better gearbox than the older LT77 that preceeded it. Ratios were near enough the same between the two.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,710
Club RR Member Number: 34
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RWD diesel engine for projectDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Jul 17, 2014 16:10:41 GMT
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the difference would be pilot rear axles are 4.11 at best, 4.7 at worst
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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RWD diesel engine for projectsowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Jul 17, 2014 16:16:26 GMT
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the difference would be pilot rear axles are 4.11 at best, 4.7 at worst Which is why it isn't always the case that commercial gearboxes are wildly unsuitable ratios for cars and conversions.
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benzine
Part of things
Posts: 333
Club RR Member Number: 87
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RWD diesel engine for projectbenzine
@benzine
Club Retro Rides Member 87
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Jul 17, 2014 16:20:28 GMT
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Yeah the pilot box is well suited to my kit car, pilot axle is higher than keith Richards in a hot air balloon
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THE_Liam
Yorkshire and The Humber
If at first you don't succeed... HAMMERS.
Posts: 1,363
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Looks like it's the axle then.
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BLU
Part of things
Posts: 347
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Jul 18, 2014 13:07:47 GMT
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Any boxes fit 1.4TDCi/HDi engines as found in Fiestas/206s etc......
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Last Edit: Jul 18, 2014 13:08:21 GMT by BLU
The future's bright, the future's BLU
Silver 1987 MK2 Fiesta Ghia White 2006 MK6 Fiesta ST150 Yellow 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #279 Green 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Celebration #471 (diesel conversion) Red 2008 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #893
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BLU
Part of things
Posts: 347
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Jul 18, 2014 13:11:21 GMT
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What vehical? engine bay size and ease of fittment can play a large role in deciding what engine/box you use, personly i'd forget the transit Di on weight, size and gearbox (B/H) size, i like the XUD and ford engines cos i know them but VW do a taisty TDi, just remember the later it is the more wiring it will have ! It's a fairly small bay so the more compact the better
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Last Edit: Jul 18, 2014 13:11:42 GMT by BLU
The future's bright, the future's BLU
Silver 1987 MK2 Fiesta Ghia White 2006 MK6 Fiesta ST150 Yellow 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #279 Green 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Celebration #471 (diesel conversion) Red 2008 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #893
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Jul 18, 2014 22:10:33 GMT
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what sort of height have you got to play with? The XUD engine, when stood vertical (it's normally slanted over a hell of a lot) is pretty damned tall
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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Jul 18, 2014 22:15:34 GMT
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What about the Skoda (VW) 1.4tdi ? We have a Fabia with this lump and goes quite well plus excellent economy. It's a 3 cylinder so compact. I suspect the same gearbox (Suzuki with adapter ?) that suits other VW diesel might fit.
Paul H
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Aug 13, 2014 10:38:09 GMT
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A lot of VW engines can be bolted up to volvo gearboxes intended for use with the d24 engine. M46 4+od being possible or you could use the bellhousjng from that on an m47 5 spd. Not sure what torque they'd handle though. Alternatively m90 diesel boxes are rarer but stronger.
Richard
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BLU
Part of things
Posts: 347
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Aug 26, 2014 15:56:58 GMT
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Quite liking the idea of the Pug engine. LDV gearboxes are relatively cheap as are engines. Question, if using a FWD XUD engine would I need the flyweel from a RWD engine or are they the same as the FWD item? I'm sure the sump/pickup will need modding/swapping too, but thats an unknown until the fitment is tried in the car!
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The future's bright, the future's BLU
Silver 1987 MK2 Fiesta Ghia White 2006 MK6 Fiesta ST150 Yellow 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #279 Green 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Celebration #471 (diesel conversion) Red 2008 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #893
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Aug 26, 2014 16:46:19 GMT
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you can either use the LDV Pilot flywheel and clutch - or for higher power, use a pug 306 HDi flywheel + pressure plate, with a Ford Galaxy 2L friction plate
The stock XUD flywheel, whilst being rather awesome for power, is a "pull" type release clutch, so not compatible with this gearbox I'm afraid
Sump/oil pickup depends on what angle you want the engine to sit at. The XM I used, held the engine at almost 45 degrees - most pugs/citroens don't have such an extreme angle. All sumps are interchangeable from every XUD and XU engine - which you'd need the matching oil pickup/oil pump from too
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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BLU
Part of things
Posts: 347
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Aug 26, 2014 19:20:22 GMT
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you can either use the LDV Pilot flywheel and clutch - or for higher power, use a pug 306 HDi flywheel + pressure plate, with a Ford Galaxy 2L friction plate The stock XUD flywheel, whilst being rather awesome for power, is a "pull" type release clutch, so not compatible with this gearbox I'm afraid Sump/oil pickup depends on what angle you want the engine to sit at. The XM I used, held the engine at almost 45 degrees - most pugs/citroens don't have such an extreme angle. All sumps are interchangeable from every XUD and XU engine - which you'd need the matching oil pickup/oil pump from too Awesome bit of advice, cheers Will the HDi flywheel take a spigot bearing? If so do you know which one?
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The future's bright, the future's BLU
Silver 1987 MK2 Fiesta Ghia White 2006 MK6 Fiesta ST150 Yellow 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #279 Green 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Celebration #471 (diesel conversion) Red 2008 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #893
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Aug 26, 2014 20:06:29 GMT
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That's really interesting info. I'm intrigued how the bellhousing bolts up when the engine is canted more or less? Does it have some sort of uniform bolt pattern that can be matched in different positions?
Rich
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the spigot bearing you can grab from any DAF dealer - LDV part number ASU2477, and they always fit into the crank itself, not the flywheel There's a mild angular displacement from the gearbox to the engine - can't be changed unless you basically remake the bellhousing. Best picture I've got that shows the bolt patterns:
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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Aug 27, 2014 10:00:43 GMT
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I'm only asking these questions out of interest. I don't know much about this sort of thing.
Would that mean that if you were to set up an engine canted over further than in the LDV then the gearbox would also be tipped over then? Wouldn't this affect it with regard to lubrication etc?
Rich
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Aug 27, 2014 11:48:42 GMT
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I will admit... that's something I hadn't considered in-depth. I know the R380 has a built-in oil pump, but I'm unsure of exactly where the oil pickup is. Asked the main man at Syncro gearboxes where they're located, so will be able to find out if it's an issue
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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Aug 27, 2014 13:32:47 GMT
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Well I was just thinking that since (those I know of) gearboxes seem to use filler and drain holes on the sides like on a diff, that changing the angle of the box would change the oil level when 'full'
Richard
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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RWD diesel engine for projectsowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Aug 27, 2014 19:53:40 GMT
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There is a specific quantity of oil that goes in the R380 (can't remember how much exactly) but easiest way is to fill them up when upright. I would have thought it would cope happily with being tipped over a long way, the oil pick-up is at the bottom protruding forwards from the centre plate in the dip in the base of the front casing. The pump is driven off the back of the layshaft in the tailhousing.
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Aug 28, 2014 15:18:03 GMT
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Aah, hadn't thought about there being a specific quantity that should go in, or filling it upright before fitting! Obvious I suppose. Always great the little bits of knowledge you get on here, thanks
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