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Aug 11, 2014 22:05:20 GMT
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To shorten a longish story, no. 1 son has recently acquired an Arosa 1.7SDI (yes, we know the S is for slow, but he's 17 so insurance cost matters!).
This was an ebay special with declared PAS pump failure (true) since fixed. Not declared and possibly not known by the PO is that it has the gearing from the 1.0 petrol version fitted. This means 72 mph on the governer in 5th (calculated, much to noisy to try!), though it does go quite well up to 60.
So at the weekend we tracked down and removed the correct gearbox from a Lupo 1.7. All advice was to look inside it before fitting as apparently mainshaft bearings die young and destroy the box if allowed to fail completely. Sure enough, the infamous bearing is showing pitting on rollers and outer track.
Bearings are cheap enough, but fitting looks like the royal pain. The outer race is in a blind hole in the casing and while I can get the knacked one out easy enough (welder!), to do the job properly it needs measuring and shimming which means removing the new race again which hurting it. That will take a proper internal puller (approx 42mm) and they seem to get very dear once over about 32mm.
Any bright ideas on how to get around this or where to borrow/rent a suitable puller in South Somerset would be much appreciated!
Cheers
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Aug 11, 2014 22:57:01 GMT
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Can you use hydrolic force to get it out, i.e fill the hole with oil then wack a metal dowel (of the correct diameter) into the centre pushing the bearing out......Or just buy 2 bearings put in first one calculate shims required, destroy it getting it out, fit shims and 2nd new bearing. Bearings are precision so the amount of shims required shouldn't vary.
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
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Posts: 1,991
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Aug 12, 2014 10:09:01 GMT
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Would have thought, if replacing like for like with bearings, no measuring or shiming required, as said in another post bearings are precision sizes. Ttfn Glenn
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Aug 12, 2014 19:10:36 GMT
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Thanks for replies so far. NOt sure the hydraulic method can work due to largish diameter (42mm) and very limited depth below the bottom of the bearing (maybe 3mm) - it really is a blind hole.
I was quite liking the "bearings are precision items assumed they are the same and use same shims approach" but discussed in some detail with a guy who rebuilds alot of these today and he reckons this will result in too much pre-load most of the time - probably because they were too tight from the factory and the reason for the failure in the first place.....
I have some thoughts involving some parts of a small three legged puller and some improvisation. Plan B might involve a 45mm internal circlip and some lengths of bicycle spoke......
To the garage......
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
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Posts: 1,991
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Aug 12, 2014 22:42:44 GMT
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Would it be possible to measure end float with old bearing, then measure play in bearing, a bit of maths should give you the measurement you need. If bearings are cheap enough, get a spare, grind down the outer race, until it slides in and out of housing, check float, calculate shim, fit new bearing. Ttfn Glenn
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Aug 15, 2014 20:37:10 GMT
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Circlip idea did not work - spokes kept breaking at HAZ next to weld.
Modified puller has worked..... Yay!
On to the next aggro - what damn thread is it in the selector shaft plug? It's smaller than M8 and bigger than M6...... wierd!
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Aug 15, 2014 22:55:30 GMT
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Circlip idea did not work - spokes kept breaking at HAZ next to weld. Modified puller has worked..... Yay! On to the next aggro - what damn thread is it in the selector shaft plug? It's smaller than M8 and bigger than M6...... wierd! Nick M7 Caught me out on a VW flywheel too. If you need a bolt to improvise something, bicycle handlebar stems seem to use M7's oddly regularly. Or just pop into TPS/VW/Audi etc. They should have them for pretty cheap. (Awkward pricks aren't they.)
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Aug 16, 2014 19:43:59 GMT
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Wentin Fasteners in Yeovil had a few M7 bolts - which solved that problem. Until yesterday I had lived 47 years oblivious to the existence of M7 threads. And 9mm bolt heads for that matter - I wondered why they were included in spanner/socket sets. Yes, they are bloody awkward. M7 threads. Bolts with 9mm heads (also M7 as it turns out). Torx bolts with 12 points. Torx bolts with 6 points. Ordinary hex bolts. Ordinary allen head bolts. All in one gearbox...... WTF! And pullers, I've made two more improvised ones today (which both worked and both involved M7 threads) and severely challenged my proper bearing puller getting the 5th gear sleeve and mainshaft bearing off (two kettles of boiling water needed to make removal possible). Now I can't get one of the diff carrier bearings off because the CROWNwheel obstructs the (proper) bearing puller. And the CROWNwheel is held on with rivets....... And having got it all apart I can now see that the reverse gear idler and the reverse gear teeth on 1/2 synchro hub are horribly chewed. !! It's eating my time and my money....... Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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kabman
Part of things
Posts: 347
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I did some reserach on rebuilding the 085 box in my Lupo - it had the usual whine in 5th gear when I bought it - but eventually found a good replacement box for less cost than the bearings. Here's a guide to replacing 085 diff bearings. If you need any free spares I still have the original 085 but it will have the wrong ratios for a deisel. It's an early 1.4E so taller final drive than 1.0 or 1.4S. I thought diesels didn't use the 085 but apparently the early SDIs did. Well you live and learn. Some useful info on SDI gearbox codes here but it sounds like you know what you're doing.
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2014 7:11:08 GMT by kabman
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Aug 22, 2014 17:36:40 GMT
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Making progress on this now.
All bearings renewed, preloads set and better reverse gears and planet gears sourced from a very nice man on the Poloclub forum.
It's now going back together and I sincerely hope it will work nicely...... Current aggro is setting up the linkage internally as it turns out that removing the cup from the main selector shaft and thus loosing the factory setting was a stupid thing to do..... Factory setting procedure involves several quite special looking special tools. IT's quite critical and if it doesn't work it would mean removing the box and splitting it again.
Appreciate the spares offer Kabman. If you are in the south west I could still be interested as I might be able to turn the 1.0 based 'box that is in the car now into something vaguely useful. It is about the most useless possible combination at present!
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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