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Aug 19, 2014 13:08:43 GMT
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Hi Folks
Just took my daughters 03 1.25 fiesta for a cam belt change to a garage. when i picked it up it felt sluggish. its stalled when approached lights 3 times when you dip the clutch. . It also sounds raspy when you accelerate hard. defintley feels less perky. took it back and they are reluctant to look into it. they said they have pinned it up. i have left it with them but to me it feels like the timing is off. could do with a bit of help if anyone knows how to sort it. he also said one of teh core plugs hads rust stains. is that a big job? cheers Jed
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blower
Part of things
Never mix Cider and Red Wine , Thats 1 of my Life Lessons . J.C.
Posts: 252
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Aug 19, 2014 15:33:18 GMT
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If the timing is out it would act as you've said ,
Its quite easy to check
Core plugs , it depends on which 1 , some are easier to get to than others
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 979
Club RR Member Number: 13
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Aug 19, 2014 16:11:36 GMT
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Yep, sounds like the timing is out slightly.
If they can't get it right from the beginning and are reluctant to put it right I'd take their advice with a polite smile and ignore it. If it's losing coolant I'd worry then either do it myself or find another garage.
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,227
Club RR Member Number: 160
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fiesta sluggish after cam belt changeRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Aug 19, 2014 17:29:25 GMT
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The cam and crank pulley are 'freewheeling' on these, which is to say they don't have keyways. You lock the cams and crank and if you don't put it back together correctly it's quite easy to get the timing wrong. Get it re-checked, or buy the timing kit yourself. It's about £20 and you only need remove the valve cover and a 10mm blanking bolt on the back of the block near the crank pulley. It'll be well detailed enough online.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:18:45 GMT
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Thanks guys. The garage phoned and I went down whilst they had the covers off. The had the cams locked up in line with the crank. They reckon the timing wS slightly out before and now was spot on. They reckon driving will reeducate the ecu and it will be fine. It stalled again when I drove home so I razzed it like I stole it. Seems to have stopped stalling now. Still seems a little underpowered though. As for the core plug it is one in between the cam valley. They are like hexbolts. The lad said to keep my eye on the coolant level. It it goes down drop a rad weld in. If that doesn't fix it there is a good chance the head might need to come off if the plug breaks on removal. Cheers. Jed
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,227
Club RR Member Number: 160
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fiesta sluggish after cam belt changeRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Aug 19, 2014 18:28:03 GMT
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Thanks guys. The garage phoned and I went down whilst they had the covers off. The had the cams locked up in line with the crank. They reckon the timing wS slightly out before and now was spot on. They reckon driving will reeducate the ecu and it will be fine. It stalled again when I drove home so I razzed it like I stole it. Seems to have stopped stalling now. Still seems a little underpowered though. As for the core plug it is one in between the cam valley. They are like hexbolts. The lad said to keep my eye on the coolant level. It it goes down drop a rad weld in. If that doesn't fix it there is a good chance the head might need to come off if the plug breaks on removal. Cheers. Jed Sounds like excuses to me. I'd still want it double checked, not being funny. I have seen the consequences of getting the timing wrong/leaving bolts loose on these first hand thanks to a cack-handed apprentice. Not worth the hassle. If the core plugs are the bolt in ones, use StealSeal. (if they are the press in ones, they HAVE to be replaced really, they rust away) Its more expensive but we used it at work the other day to repair a porus head on a VW TDI. Needless to say I was impressed.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:44:54 GMT
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Thanks for that rich. Gonna keep me eye on the coolant. Sounds good stuff steel seal. To be fair I saw it line up meself although I.m no mechanic. Googled the ecu thing and it seems reasonable that it adjusts fuelling. Will see how it goes.cheets
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,227
Club RR Member Number: 160
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fiesta sluggish after cam belt changeRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Aug 19, 2014 18:49:28 GMT
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Thanks for that rich. Gonna keep me eye on the coolant. Sounds good stuff steel seal. To be fair I saw it line up meself although I.m no mechanic. Googled the ecu thing and it seems reasonable that it adjusts fuelling. Will see how it goes.cheets See how you get on. Trouble is, without 'knowing' what was going on however, there is still a possibility that the cams are aligned to each other, but the crank could still be out of alignment. Fingers crossed it is just due to it being misaligned before and the auto-adaptations are out. Let us know how you get on.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:52:56 GMT
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Will do mate. Lad seemed okay. He was a ford mechanic. It was his boss the owner that was a bit off about it. Had it up to seventy tonight and seemed a little better
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Aug 20, 2014 12:33:43 GMT
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As rich has said the cam pulleys on these aren't pegged or keywayed So its easy to get it wrong and needs the correct locking tools to do it properly Sounds like the Inlet side is off slightly Does it miss or surge when idling
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Aug 20, 2014 13:33:48 GMT
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no it ticks over sweetly. they showed me it locked up at TDC. not sure how i would adjust it like you would with an old dizzy car.
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,227
Club RR Member Number: 160
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fiesta sluggish after cam belt changeRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Aug 20, 2014 16:18:27 GMT
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It's not the ignition timing that would be wrong, it will be the entire camshaft out of phase with the rest of the rotating parts. Nothing like a distributer.
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Aug 20, 2014 18:28:50 GMT
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Yeah I get it I think. Checked out that core plug tonight. The plugs looked well rusted but came out no problem, cleaned it all up and will see if I lose any coolant. Started up well so will see it goes as times passes
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Aug 20, 2014 19:39:31 GMT
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On these Zetec engines you can quite easily put in the wrong timing pin for the crankshaft (IIRC they are different for all of the engines) which will give similar results. I have seen a few people (with only one of them admitting it!) that the pin confusion has caught them out. The top camshaft pulleys are locked out using a bit of bar.
Whilst this next part will sound derogatory you can't an old dog (or someone stubborn!) new tricks. As Rich said I would buy the correct timing kit for your engine and see what happens.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Aug 20, 2014 21:35:27 GMT
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On these Zetec engines you can quite easily put in the wrong timing pin for the crankshaft (IIRC they are different for all of the engines) which will give similar results. I have seen a few people (with only one of them admitting it!) that the pin confusion has caught them out. The top camshaft pulleys are locked out using a bit of bar. Whilst this next part will sound derogatory you can't an old dog (or someone stubborn!) new tricks. As Rich said I would buy the correct timing kit for your engine and see what happens. The locking set i have has 2 crank locking pins of differing lengths (covers a few engines) so there is the possabilty to make a mistake and use the wrong one.
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R.I.P photobucket
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Aug 21, 2014 18:07:23 GMT
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Give it a good drive tonight and it seemed to drive okay. It stalled once when I dipped the clutch. Car was stood for 3 years until I picked it up last week. Serviced it changed tyres, battery etc, perhaps the stalling was coincidence after the cam belt change with curse word coming through from standing. Will keep trying it till I,m confident before letting daughter take it out.
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