was8v
Part of things
Posts: 46
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Sept 21, 2014 16:38:40 GMT
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I'm hoping this is the best place for this! My dad has a Sierra based Marlin Cabrio: It has a late low mileage 1989 Ford 2litre Pinto converted from EFI to a brand new (at build) weber 32/36 carb with brand new OE ford mechanical fuel pump and new distributer. He has had it for years and its not moved more than 3k miles since it was built. It has never revved right since we have had it. It has never revved beyond 3500 under load. It will rev to the limiter out of gear. The timing was checked at the MOT in June and found to be correct (I assume the advance was checked). The other day we took it down the motorway and after a few minutes at 60mph (as fast as it would go) it cut out. We coasted to hard shoulder and after a while it restarted and we limped toward home at 50mph. it cut out again and would't start so towed it home. I checked the inline fuel filter (vertically between fuel pump and carb) and it wasn't getting full (even with the engine running), more like 1/4 and plenty of fuel in the tank. Thinking fuel starvation we: - removed inline filter and replaced with hose
- disconnected line at the fuel pump to tank and blew back (no resistance and tank was a new alloy one with breather at build)
- checked little filter in carb all clean
- checked throttle cable correctly fully opens throttle
- disconnected fuel pump-carb line and checked for spurts of petrol when turning over
- spark plugs are the perfect colour
Put back together and its still the same - now it just cuts out at 3500 rpm under load and will take a while to restart. Does this pump look like the correct amount of fuel when cranking? PS he should have hooked that pump up to a line and caught in a jar.... Thanks in advance for any help! Give me a modern car with an ECU to fault read any day, the carb is a mystery to me!
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Last Edit: Sept 21, 2014 16:50:42 GMT by was8v
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Sept 21, 2014 17:02:01 GMT
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That looks a bit weak to me. And yes, lol, cranking into a jar would be better! Fuel pump looks new, so have you checked the length of the pushrod that drives it? There are a couple of different lengths available and also some pumps have a plastic spacer where others don't.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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was8v
Part of things
Posts: 46
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Sept 21, 2014 17:09:02 GMT
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That looks a bit weak to me. And yes, lol, cranking into a jar would be better! Fuel pump looks new, so have you checked the length of the pushrod that drives it? There are a couple of different lengths available and also some pumps have a plastic spacer where others don't. Aha! This engine was converted to carb by the guy that built it, as I say it has been like this since we got it (we bought it from a dealer type person) and never took it to high revs before buying (BUYER BEWARE...), so it might well be the wrong pump. It was a brand new Ford pump when built, but as I say the engine was originally EFI so it might be the wrong one as you say. How would I measure the pushrod that drives it? - and is there a cross reference somewhere that will tell me a part number that it should be? Thanks!
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Last Edit: Sept 21, 2014 17:10:26 GMT by was8v
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Sept 21, 2014 17:34:49 GMT
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I'd just check the clearance - take the fuel pump off, rotate the engine until the pushrod is at the bottom of its stroke and measure how far down from the mating face this is. Compare that to the nose length of the pump... they should be the same length. A short rod (or spaced where it didn't need to be) will be obvious.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Sept 21, 2014 17:51:30 GMT
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I have a nearly new fuel pump that does work if any use, could it be the coil?
Sent from my GT-I9505 using proboards
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was8v
Part of things
Posts: 46
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Sept 21, 2014 18:11:12 GMT
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I'd just check the clearance - take the fuel pump off, rotate the engine until the pushrod is at the bottom of its stroke and measure how far down from the mating face this is. Compare that to the nose length of the pump... they should be the same length. A short rod (or spaced where it didn't need to be) will be obvious. Brill thanks. I have also just found this parts diagram: www.fordopedia.org/parts-catalog/pinto-ohc/B5.10 so if I remove the rod it should be 50mm (it doesn't say what thickness the 'gasket' spacer should be) TL20= 2 litre and can also check the part number on the pump. I have a nearly new fuel pump that does work if any use, could it be the coil? I will check the rod first but might well take you up on that if its from a 2 litre. I will google how to check the coil
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Last Edit: Sept 21, 2014 18:13:45 GMT by was8v
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Sept 21, 2014 18:49:48 GMT
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Have you checked the tank venting/ breathers are clear? Could it be vacuuming?
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Kieran
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,092
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Sept 21, 2014 19:59:30 GMT
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Also check the cam timing. I had the cam a couple of teeth out and that fave similar performance.
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The Ashby Jackson fleet:-
1979 Mini Clubman 1.8 K series 1978 Skoda 110r Project 130RS K-oupe 1978 Austin Allegro 1500 SDL Estate 1984 BMW K100 Sidecar outfit 1999 Yamaha FZS 1000 Fazer 1991 Kawasaki ZXR400 race bike 2002 Kawasaki ZX9r race bike
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was8v
Part of things
Posts: 46
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Sept 22, 2014 21:03:16 GMT
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Have you checked the tank venting/ breathers are clear? Could it be vacuuming? Yes the breather is clear, plus tried without the petrol cap... To update this: Am I right in thinking I need the pump and bits for a TL20H engine code? Bear in mind this was originally a sierra injection engine. Pushrod for fuel pump is 50mm, apparently correct. Part number on our fuel pump is 70hf-9350-ca On that part diagram that is the fuel pump for smaller variants 1.3/1.6/1.8 So this means the pump itself is wrong! Will this make a difference? If so will order up the correct pump and gasket for a TL20H from Ford. Thanks again for all the help - once i've ruled out fuel supply I'll start looking elsewhere!
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Last Edit: Sept 22, 2014 21:05:26 GMT by was8v
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Sept 22, 2014 21:19:50 GMT
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Yes if its for the lower capacity versions it may not deliver sufficient fuel when using enough of the loud pedal, however I would have though if it was good enough for a 1.8 a 2.0 shouldn't have been too much to ask if it is working properly. You can get an low pressure electric pump for about £12 and do away with the manual one (don't use a high pressure one they are for injection systems), I'm thinking about doing it with mine as 99.9% of the time mine is pumping nothing as its running on gas.
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Sept 24, 2014 23:43:33 GMT
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Am I stating the obvious? It sounds like ignition - it can't be a breaking down rotor arm or even failing coil/leads???
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gavs1
Part of things
Posts: 571
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Sept 25, 2014 6:02:25 GMT
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Has the dizzy bin changed for a carb 1 ?
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Sept 25, 2014 16:25:23 GMT
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Is the dizzy a Bosch or a Motorcraft? If it's the one with a fixed contact (can't remember which is which) in the cap and sprung contact on the rotor arm, have a good look at the rotor arm contact (or chance £3 on a new one). One in the process of breaking gave similar symptoms on a cortina of mine many moons ago.
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Jaguar S-Type 3.0 SE
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Sept 25, 2014 16:51:20 GMT
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Has the dizzy bin changed for a carb 1 ? You can see it in the video - it's got a vac capsule and a condenser so I'd say it has been changed. I'm not ruling out timing issues, it's hard to know over the internet because the lack of power symptom could easily be either one. If I had the car in front of me, I'd be ensuring the timing is spot on because it's easier to rule out. I still think that pump looks weak though. Wait and see what happens when it's been changed.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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gavs1
Part of things
Posts: 571
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Sept 26, 2014 5:37:42 GMT
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Try gravity feed the carb and see what happens then, has this ever had the timing checked with a strobe light? Is the advance/retard working properly?
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Sept 26, 2014 12:38:02 GMT
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Has the dizzy bin changed for a carb 1 ? You can see it in the video - it's got a vac capsule and a condenser so I'd say it has been changed. I'm not ruling out timing issues, it's hard to know over the internet because the lack of power symptom could easily be either one. If I had the car in front of me, I'd be ensuring the timing is spot on because it's easier to rule out. I still think that pump looks weak though. Wait and see what happens when it's been changed. I agree it does look week to me as well, TBH as long as the pump rod is the right one the pump doesn't matter (if it works propperly obv), the early pumps did both engine sizes just the rod length was differant.
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R.I.P photobucket
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was8v
Part of things
Posts: 46
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Sept 28, 2014 21:59:31 GMT
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Thanks everyone! We rang Ford and apparently 70hf-9350-ca super-ceeds the part number for 2 litre pump so it is the correct pump! As you say bortaf it seems the pumps are interchangeable. However being very suspicious we got on the phone to Tickover in Kent and they sent us a new pump of a different design: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Capri-Cortina-Sierra1-6-2-0-OHC-Pinto-fuel-pump-/291222000301?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43ce2f12adFor comparison pumping away (still not convinced dad to use a jar): Clearly pumping more, so the old one although it looks new (and barely has a few thousand miles on it) from Ford is duff. When connected everything back up it runs, and revs properly and doesn't cut out! Due to a minor incident (leaving ignition on...) car got a new coil too. HOWEVER, Although it runs well, it has a flat spot at 3200 rpm when accelerating hard. Also it pops a lot on the overrun (plugs are a nice colour though). Perhaps this is down to the very non standard exhaust?! Anyone got ideas on the flat spot? I'm thinking it might be worth rebuilding the carb.
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Last Edit: Sept 28, 2014 22:05:02 GMT by was8v
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gavs1
Part of things
Posts: 571
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Sept 29, 2014 6:38:36 GMT
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Carb jetting I reckon , I'd be inclined to have a strobe lite put on to be sure the ignition timing is bang on,
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was8v
Part of things
Posts: 46
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Sept 29, 2014 8:06:23 GMT
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Carb jetting I reckon , I'd be inclined to have a strobe lite put on to be sure the ignition timing is bang on, Ta, my dad had a mechanic put a new cambelt on it in June with its MOT, and he said he checked the timing. However I will check it out, and probably grab a carb rebuild kit to do when its raining some day! Also idle is fine when cold, but when warmed up it rises and falls - the carb has auto choke - could it be this? Can anyone recommend a good place to take it Ramsbottom / Bury / Bolton area to get it set up properly on a rolling road once I have done these bits?
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Last Edit: Sept 29, 2014 8:42:47 GMT by was8v
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Sept 29, 2014 21:36:52 GMT
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Flat spot, hesitates and poor idle off choke? Sounds like an air leak to me.
Do double check the timing and valve (cambelt) timing first. (see haynes manual. I could tell you, but it's late and I CBA)
To find the leak - first, check around the carb for any brass pipe ends (the sort rubber hoses go over) that have nothing connected to them - usually in the middle of the carb body - and plug any you find. There is often one that on a standard car works a flap in the airbox but isn't used on a kitcar with a K&N. Next, remove and plug the hose to the brake servo (just in case.. sometimes a servo leaks air but the symptoms usually get worse when you press the brake, and the brakes tend to be rubbish too).
Failing that, look at the carb base gaskets (either side of the isolating block) and then the manifold gasket. These are less likely normally, but you can't ignore anything on a built up engine that never ran right.
After all of that, look at the carb jetting although IMO a badly jetted DGAV shows its troubles mainly as either lack of top end power or ridiculously poor MPG but plenty of go.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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