Triumph Toledo engine cooked...?!

[grifterkid]

My Toledo is fitted (and has been since it was made) with the peppy, zesty little 1300 engine and it's been perfect... Well, perfect until this evening it seems!!!

I was on my way up to good old London Town this evening (not a huge drive from where I work in Kingston) and whilst sitting in traffic my chum asked me "should it be making that noise?" as it gurgled, knocked and rattled. Of course I replied "no!" and glancing at the temp' gauge (which I wasn't paying attention to) I saw it was pretty much in the red...!!!!!!!!!

I was near my destination so I kept driving (which I probably shouldn't have done?!) but apart from the gurgly, knocking rattle (which became worse when the car was stationary) everything was fine with no loss of power nor illumination of the oil pressure light...?!

I got to where I had to get to and parked up leaving it to sulk for a few hours... When the engine was turned off a grand gurgle commenced!!!

Anyhow, I got back to the car and filled the now empty cooling system and it fired up first time and all seemed fine even though I was crawling for about 5 minutes... Out on the open (in London? Never!!!) roads I was being more careful and saw that after a mile or so the temp' needle started to stray steadily into the (nearly) red segment!!! I continued and made it home after about half an hour of very steady (and not problematic) driving...

When I got back and turned the engine off the cooling system became one gurgling, knocking, banging medley for about a minute and a half for goodness knows what reason...?!?!?!

This all sounds bad to me but I am a little bit reassured by the fact that engine seemed to still be as responsive (even though I was being gentle!) as ever and no oil pressure light came on to tell me things were well and truly forked...!!!

Needless to say, I need some help and advice as soon as possible so I can get this car to a garage and get them to sort things out for me!

I do SO hope that this can be remedied as I don't want to lose this engine...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to each and every one of you in advance...!

[Seth]

The engine will probably survive this bit of extra heat - they're not as fragile as modern alloy blocks/heads. The gurgling and knocking is all the remaining water boiling combined with some 'pinking' due to the heat while still running. There is a small chance that the head gasket could be weakened as a result but that is not your main problem right now. The root cause of the over-heating needs to be sorted.

Assuming there are no obvious leaks from anywhere a stuck thermostat would be the easiest/cheapest thing to investigate as if you take the old one out it can tested in a pan of water on the hob, seeing if it opens as the water approaches boiling point. This would cost you about £5 to do yourself including a new gasket and thermostat and it only involves two bolts and loosening the top hose to take the thermostat housing off.

Next thing might be the water pump, if it's stopped pumping for some internal reason.

The head gasket itself could be a possiblity, that there is a tiny break allowing the engine to suck the water out of the system, but you'd probably notice this as a rather steamy exhaust.

Its unlikely to be due to the radiator being blocked as that would not be something that happens suddenly and while it might not be flowing as well as it did when new it wouldn't result in sudden and immediate overheating if you're using the car in a similar manner to the way you usually do.

[psycho83]

Did the coolant boil off or leak out somewhere? I'd be checking the water pump as a potential source of the clattering. I'd strongly advise against driving it, thats for sure. Check the oil hasn't got water in it too.

Good luck on getting it sorted!

[grifterkid]

Seth : Thanks for those reassuring words sir, it means alot! I'm not as worried as I probably should be as, apart from the noises, the engines characteristics didn't really change in terms of performance (even though I was being extremely gentle!)...!!!

psycho83 : As far as I can tell there was no leaking so I assume the water went due to boling (but I could be wrong of course)...?! I've heard elsewhere it could well be the water pump and this does relate to the knocks and bangs! I most certainly will not be driving the Toledo yet...!!!!!!!!

I think, going on the above I'll attend to all the options just to fully illiminate any potential risk of missing something!

Thanks to you all and if you've got any more advice please do throw it my way!

[scaryoldcortina]

Just to add to what seth already said, and assuming you have no external leaks (ie a puddle) the first thing I would do is fill the water to the top of the radiator then run the engine with the cap off and watch what happens. If the water appears to remain still and cold even after the engine is heated up suspect the stat first then the water pump. If it rises and shoots out of the filler suspect the head gasket instead.

[optimusprime]

Also check radiator cap,make sure its not 'boiling' out of that.
When you refill the system,make sure you set the heater control to 'hot',thus ensuring the water circulates and you get rid of any trapped air.

[grifterkid]

I'm going to give it all a thorough going-over this weekend so thanks to you all for your really very helpful advice...

[eternaloptimist]

Let us know what you find

[grifterkid]

Will do, thanks again...

[The Jackeria]

I had the exact same sounds from my 1300 tolly engine a few months back, my radiator had gained a hole and leaked whilst driving so I never knew about the coolant leak until the noises began and temp rose leaving me stranded (well I put in an a full bottle of radweld and loads of water and got towed home by a friend). As others say, check all possibilities for coolant blockages/leaks.
From memory my noises sounded more like the valves grinding in their ports due to heat expansion and only occurred when pushing the engine to higher rpm, if it were the waterpump the noise would have been consistent. I had only changed he pump a few months before because it had failed. There is a small hole on the bottom of the pump that shows if the bearing has failed, it allows water to pass through and will have watermarks on it if its gone.
Luckily for me nothing serious had happened, I fitted a replacement rad, changed the oil/filter, checked my magnetic sump plug for bits of metal just in case any internal damage had been caused to find nothing and the noises went away, took a while for me to regain confidence in the car but all is well. Probably overkill but I've recently purchased a full motorsport spec slimline fan set up with coolant temp controller for the fan and will be upgrading to a bigger radiator in the future as I'm still not sure on 400mile trips that I do to get to further afield car shows and my fathers house.

[grifterkid]

^^^ Thanks for those words sir...

To be honest I have not even thought about the radiator itself being the cause of my gripes! I shall have a close look at that...

I am still keen to sort things out as soon as I can so I don't cause any further trauma to either myself of that lovely old car of mine!

I have changed the thermostat and I will look to get a new water pump and possibly radiator just for safety's sake...!

After that I am hoping that everything will return to normal service but as the saying goes "time will tell"... Well, that and the car not working properly will tell also!!!

Old cars, you just can't beat 'em eh...?!?!?!

[taurus]

I had one of those engines do something similar a while back - good news is they can take more punishment than modern stuff. In my case it was the impeller blades on the water pump had been stolen by the rust fairies. The whole lot had disappeared - just the central bit left. A new pump sorted it.

[Battenberg]

Any updates on this old chap?