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Nov 13, 2014 18:08:44 GMT
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I'm day dreaming about a project for next year and I've long since settled on a BMW. I want something relatively cheap and plentiful, RWD is a must, with sky high tuning potential. I think a BMW 3 series of some kind will fit the bill but I'm no expert on the marque so not sure what model. My original plan was a fast, stripped out E30 but I've well and truly missed the boat price wise. Anything decent is triple the price it was a few years ago. So I was thinking, instead of skinting myself on an E30 and having nothing to drive while it languishes in engine-swap-limbo I could buy the engine donor first and tune that up. If I get on with the car and with track days, I could set a long term goal of eventually reshelling my hopped up running gear into a solid E30. So that's where I get lost. What I gather from BMW circles is that people build all kind of crazy power trains out of hybrid engines using a block from one engine, a head from the other, grab a turbo etc...They seem to have similar interchangeability of old Fords but the specifics are beyond my knowledge at this point. I've just never had a Beemer. So what's a good 3 or 5 series model to start with spec wise? What's got the best combination of engine, suspension brakes without buying an M? Something you can pick up for 3-4 grand I like the idea of a 6 cylinder turbo. I know there's lots of V8 E30's but then I'd have to start with a big fat 540 and I don't think I'd get on with it. Plus when I think 'E30' I think light and agile, not nose heavy. I'd like to drive one and see what they're like. So that's what I've been day dreaming about this week! Feel free to join in....
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,409
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Nov 13, 2014 18:12:41 GMT
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E36 325 with a turbo strapped on. Do a quick google for m50 turbo conversions to see the potential.
E36's are ridiculously cheap at the moment so you can more than afford to shop around and find a really good one.
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Nov 13, 2014 18:13:49 GMT
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For my money e36 318is coupe or compact ti four cylinder so goes round corners bags of tuning potential I.e turbo,supercharged etc
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Nov 13, 2014 19:11:33 GMT
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You need to check out the E30 Zone site where there is a massive technical section on engine options, pretty much all you'll ever need.
E36's are great value and offer both 4 and 6 pot options in the 318iS and 328i. I recently saw a decent 318iS on the local ads for under a grand. Cheap decent E30's are about, again scour local ads, shop windows etc. But.. I'd read up carefully on all the buyers guides, 'clean' cars can be hiding all sorts of hidden horrors so go get wised up on where to check.
Or... probably out of budget but what about an old school Supersaloon replica 6 series? Racing heritage a plenty and would be one very exclusive track day machine.
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106e30
Part of things
Posts: 247
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Nov 13, 2014 19:36:41 GMT
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I would say if you're heading down the tuning route, stay away from anything with an m42. It's absolutely fantastic as it is, but there really isn't much you can do with it tuning wise apart from whacking on a supercharger, but that does bring it close to 200bhp. Saying that 200bhp in an e30 would be a great car. My e30 318is goes well enough standard.
I think the e36 will have more tuning options for you especially if you're looking for big numbers.
Most people buy a solid e30 and stick an M50 under the bonnet.
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Last Edit: Nov 13, 2014 20:32:36 GMT by 106e30
Own 1991 BMW E30 318is Owned 2002 Peugeot 106 1.1 1979 BMW E12 520/6
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Nov 13, 2014 20:07:56 GMT
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E36 is certainly the platform to go for, the later 3 and 5 (E46 and E39) aren't easily upgraded with a LSD. The smallest/ lighest package would be 318ti Compact with a turbo or supercharger. I think it is the closest to a E30 M3 you gonna achieve for 5-6 grand. The saloon E36 has the stiffest body of all. So get one with out a sunroof and you will have a proper base. The earlier 325 is more desirable since the M50 block is iron an handle boost better than the latter alloy M52 engine. It gets a bit confusing, because BMW started to mess around with the engine capacities on the bootlid and cap off engine power. Turbos can be a bit tricky to get into a RHD. My dream E36 would be like: - 6 cylinder saloon (M50B25, M50B25TU, M52B25) - E46 330i crankshaft,con rods and pistons (to 2979cc) - twin turbo conversion, MHI TD03 (400hp?) - E46 330i/ E36 M3 EVO 6 speed box - 3.15LSD - Brembo brake conversion (Porsche 996 caliper, adator bracket, E46 M3 325x28mm front discs) - Goodridge brake lines, black cover - Uprated pads and brake fluid - 25/21mm ARB - Bilstein Coilover PSS9 - E36 M3 lower wishbone arms - PU bushes - Z3 steering rack (quick ratio:15.4:1) - Strut brace and convertible X-brace - 8JX17 ET34 Style 32 - Dunlop Direzza 225/4R17 or any semi slick - M steering wheel - Leather sport seats - Short shifter (Z3 shift lever) + M sport weighed gear knob (yes, really) Although you could get a M3 for that money... A more budget oriented build would be a 328i tuned to 240hp (M50 inlet mod, exhaust and chip), with a longer 2.93 LSD and E46 330i brakes instead of the Brembos) Sorry for the long post, have a nice E36 to enjoy
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Click picture for more
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Nov 13, 2014 20:29:22 GMT
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That's what I keep coming across. Seems to be a popular choice if you're aiming high.
I have in the past. Not the most approachable bunch are they? It might be better now, I'll have another look.
Yeah they are dirt cheap and a much better range of modern firepower. The E36 M3 has absolutely bottomed out price wise. As for big numbers, well it would be nice to have the option. I've had fast-ish cars in the past and I'm looking for a new experience. Not right away, but would like something with the potential to go a bit mental. There's a few V8 E30's at the local drift track and I wouldn't want to get smoked!
I know someone who is an absolute metalwork genius. If I did acquire an E30 I'd be able to strip it right down and leave it in his unit while he repairs it and fits a cage etc. If I do get an E30 it won't be a road car so not bothered about cosmetics.
Don't apologize, I'm lapping it up!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Nov 13, 2014 23:04:20 GMT
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E30s look great but (I guess this will start an arguement!) the E36 has a superior suspension setup, with less camber changes from the rear etc. They are also cheaper to buy (I could not have bought an E30 325i in the same condition as my E36 in terms of what the E36 owes me (bought off a mate at a fair price, and then chucking on some winter wheels, thermostat, and other small jobs). My friend initially bought it as a track car. IMO if you wish to build a track E36 on the cheap(ish)this is how I would do it: 318Is or 323i and larger (read on about these): Engine: -With a 6 pot I would do the M50 manifold conversion. This can yield a few horses (over 20BHP) and go to a different exhaust (even a 328i Exhaust improves things on the M52 323i and 325is (the 323 is a detuned 2.5 engine). A £28i with this manifold swap will make around 220BHP+ Suspension: -E30 lower arms fit up front and I would go with Superflex lolypop bushes, preferable with more Caster . -A good set of dampers all round ; this has made a great difference on my car (it is on a Koni setup all round) -No bigger than 16"; people will disagree here but my car drives far far better on the 15" wheels than it did on the E46 M Sport 17" wheels. It feels alot faster initially and the turn in etc. is far sharper despite the baloon tyres. As a handy bonus it is a smoother drive. If it were not for the looks I'd probably sell the 17" wheels and get some 16" items as a happy compromise. EDIT: My car was also on E46 sized tyres (225/45R17 and 245/40R17) which are slightly larger than the E36 sizes. Whilst aligning the car made things alot better it still does not compare to how it drives on the 15" wheels. Interior -As with anything weight is king (or the lack of it!). That is up to you. Brakes -Either upgrade to the 6 Pot upgrade or go to the much cheaper 300mm E46 brakes (these require the later E46 discs and the relevant brake carriers). However, 15" wheels will not fit. The E36 M3 from what I have seen has started to rise again, and quickly. Yes you can get a cheap one still, but you are more likely to get a rough example, where many of the parts are M3 specific and far more expensive than their non M counterparts, making a pricey buy a cheap on.
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2014 8:39:49 GMT by ChasR
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,954
Club RR Member Number: 29
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Personally I would go for an E36 328i Tourer, but then I had one as a company car when new, but a E36 328i 4 door would be a good choice. There is a very good thread on Pistonheads Readers Cars about a 328 Tourer with lots of information; www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1222472&mid=0&nmt=E36+328i+Touring.+When+it+breaks%2C+upgrade+it... image lifted from Pistonheads and a couple of other E36 328 threads. E36 Compact 318Ti is a good choice as you can get information from the Compact Cup race series, but as mentioned the rear suspension isn't as good as the regular E36. E46 prices are dropping but I don't think they handle s as well as an E36.
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Last Edit: Nov 14, 2014 8:34:39 GMT by MiataMark: add image
1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,409
Club RR Member Number: 52
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E36 Compact with Turbo M50 dropped in it? Best of all worlds.
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In my opinion a e36 compact with a m50 conversion. Light cars and are cheap as chips. You can probably get a fairly decent shell for around £500. And then just drop a m50 in and you already have a rocket.
I would recommend putting in poly bushes, the make a huge difference.
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BMW e36 compact
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Ian
Part of things
Posts: 977
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A above really, they are so cheap at the moment, but watch out for rust. I miss mine, and I still have it, covered in boxes in the garage.
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106e30
Part of things
Posts: 247
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Nov 14, 2014 17:42:06 GMT
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I had forgotten about the compact, the guys above make a good point. It's probably the way to go
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Own 1991 BMW E30 318is Owned 2002 Peugeot 106 1.1 1979 BMW E12 520/6
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,409
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Nov 14, 2014 17:50:49 GMT
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If I were to get rid of the Cortina the replacement would either be a 318ti Compact or an MGF.
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Have a mean compact
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Click picture for more
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Compact rear end is E30, so 325iS LSd fits. However it's not the most advanced design, and an E36 saloon as mentioned above would be better but really they're all ok if you're staying under 300hp. Stick to the 5 speed box as it's stronger and easier to get when you do melt one. Especially if you do go the compact so you can keep using a four bolt prop rather than the six bolt of the six speed cars.
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I think my vote would for an E36 328i as already mentioned - seems to make the most sense especially when 220+BHP can be had for a change of inlet manifold. I'd be very tempted with a E34 along with a 2.8 transplant, something a little different from the 3 Series.
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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It may be different but an E34 will also be heavier. It is something more and more people are saying about the E36 these days oddly enough (that they are meant to be a better steer than the E46 which replaced it (bar the M cars of course); due to the E46 gaining a fair few pounds through the transition (underneath the E36 and E46 are very similar cars)). I forgot to mention Poly bushes. Mine has the Powerflex rear lolypop bushes in the front arms (the stock ones bar genuine items are quite soft and wear away very quickly unless you go for M3 items), and the RTAB bushes are another weak spot which are better with Poly in that application .
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2014 8:37:33 GMT by ChasR
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Nov 15, 2014 10:13:29 GMT
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e34 isnt that heavy, my diseasel is within 50kg or so of an e36 m3...
quite solid things though, so not sure itll be easy to drop weight, but v8...
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,680
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Nov 15, 2014 10:42:23 GMT
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Could screw being sensible and buy the e21 I have taking up space and drop in the m42 engine that's waiting for a home 20yrs from it. Then you can track day in proper style
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£1k builds: Eagle Jeep bit.ly/33uoUCE Estelle bit.ly/3rXATC8 Superminx bit.ly/3H6tDZe
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Other Builds Toledo bit.ly/3oYFGkO Capri Mk1 bit.ly/3rVTtdQ Capri Mk2 bit.ly/3uWLijx Escort Mk2 bit.ly/359HUXL E-type bit.ly/3sSqbMD CRX bit.ly/3I2gYrt
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