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I've always fancied a Pug 205 1.9GTI but having been quietly looking for a while they seem to fall into the seriously expensive but perhaps quite solid, or the totally worn out and patched up shed category. As I would prefer one without a sunroof, what would be the issues of buying a base model shell and a donor car and swapping the mechanical bits over? This would also give me the chance to overhaul the parts as I do it, and, I might be tempted to do without the badges and trim and go for a bit of a sleeper. I don't need telling about the registration/insurance issues, I've reached the age in life where the insurance companies are more worried about me falling asleep at the wheel than driving like a nutter!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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This thread will not open a can of worms up, much. I guess what everyone will say (despite you saying that you do not need telling) is that the car's ID will not be a 205 GTi unless you go down an iffy road. From what I can tell, a few more peeps prefer the sunroof now the rally boys are done with them, so you may be in luck. If it were me I would not be concerned about the engine ; in reality the 1.9 is not *that* much faster. If you really want some pace I'd buy a 306 GTi-6 or Xsara VTS and transfer the engine over. Now that will be a *cheap* bang per buck conversion, if you do not manage to buy one in the first place  . However, to answer your question I do not think it is too tricky to do if you have two cars side by side. Welshpug is the man to ask . Starting off with an XU engined car may make life easier however. The rear suspension is dead simple to swap accross ; the front subframe (which is quite different on the GTi/non GTi cars) would be my area of concern. How pricey is pricey? Granted it is a 1.6 (if you can call it worse) but I sold my non sunroof GTi for £1500 as shown here: retrorides.proboards.com/thread/167387/1989-peugeot-205-1750ono-warwickAs with anything do not underestimate how much it can cost to refurb a car over buying one done despite how 'pricey' it is. My 205 cost far more to refurb than what I sold it for (as I am sure it did for the previous owner), but these are things most 'original' 205s will now need doing (rear beam being one and quite a pricey one if I am honest. It's the same story for the Escort in my sig ; cheap it was not but the bills are eye watering! |
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Last Edit: Nov 22, 2014 8:16:56 GMT by ChasR
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,339
Club RR Member Number: 84
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I believe the rear arches are different on non gti cars.
I always fancied a base spec with a 106gti engine.
The sunroof i had on my td was really nice tbh, good sealing method too
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Chas,
Thanks for the advice, I've done a few projects over the years and it's easy to forget the real costs involved, maybe I should just keep looking for an original one? Nice Escort by the way!
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Buy the best you can, the looks sell the GTi and unless you want it as just a beaten up track car or back road sleeper then I would stick with getting a GTi as said above having the 1.6 to 1.9 isn't that much in it, besides the 1.6 has a high rev limit and IMO nicer gear ratios, you only loose rear discs and around 15bhp and then you don't really feel the difference I swapped from 1.6 to 1.9 many years ago but I wanted the Mi-16 or 406 SRi so I ran the 1.9 for a while before going down the Mi-16 route now that was a different beast and wish I stayed that set up and just fitted carbs but nope I swapped to the 406 SRi biggest mistake ever it never really felt right on a good day it was great made all the right noises and occasions it went like hell others it was a pig.
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Some days you just need to take a grinder to an inanimate object, just to make your day a tiny bit better!!
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Nov 22, 2014 10:16:41 GMT
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Go for a 309gti
Far nicer to drive and feel much more stable on the limit
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Nov 22, 2014 11:39:11 GMT
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Go for a 309gti Far nicer to drive and feel much more stable on the limit Agreed here, but even a 205 is not that bad with some Bilstein B6 dampers or Genuine Pug dampers (I would not fit anything worse than those) with either the Group N or Group A rear beam mounts and modern tyres. That makes for a lovely package, especially on the limit . Ask Tepper  . I knew I forgot something, the arches . The gear ratios of the 1.6 are lovely, and are a great match with the rev happy engine. If I am honest, I was never a fan of the Peugeot rear discs. Sure, the pads are simpler to change than the shoes, but they never last long (a lack of material from new) in addition to the handbrake being curse word, even in a 106! Many thanks for the comments Phil . |
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Last Edit: Nov 22, 2014 11:46:44 GMT by ChasR
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Nov 22, 2014 11:56:14 GMT
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I had both a 1.9 and a 1.6 back in the day.... to be completely honest I couldn't tell the difference |
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Nov 22, 2014 12:01:28 GMT
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I had both a 1.9 and a 1.6 back in the day.... to be completely honest I couldn't tell the difference Mmmmm, most interesting, esp as non-sunroof 1.6's are much more common. Nice one on the bay with 150bhp apparently, all at the other end of the country at the moment but I'm not in a great rush. Next week would do . |
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,409
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Nov 22, 2014 12:28:43 GMT
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I always fancied a base spec with a 106gti engine. Me too. TU engine is nice and light as well so handling would be good. 120hp as standard so could be quicker than a 1.6 GTI and quite tunable, respond very well to breathing mods. With a decent suspension set up and some rallye steels with nice tyres you could have an excellent back road blaster/sleeper/track car. |
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Nov 22, 2014 18:32:36 GMT
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If you want a gti, get a gti.
The making the rear arches of an non gti work with anything bigger than 14s is hard work.
I have had an XS with 15s and a UK Rallye with 15s, 16's and 17's and it would have been much easier starting with a Gti lol.
My dream build has always been a 1.6gti with tuned 106 gti engine as they can be as quick as a mi16 but a bit lighter.
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simes
Part of things
Posts: 734
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Nov 22, 2014 22:56:47 GMT
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Simes
205Mi16 - 262 cams, Jenvey Throttle Bodies, Emerald managment blah blah......
E91 320D MSport
Honda NC30
Vespa 300GTS
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Nov 22, 2014 23:35:21 GMT
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What he said. What they don't know on there, isnt worth knowing. Used to be a regular back in the day. |
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Nov 22, 2014 23:45:07 GMT
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I always fancied a base spec with a 106gti engine. Me too. TU engine is nice and light as well so handling would be good. 120hp as standard so could be quicker than a 1.6 GTI no, its a right old boat anchor and a chocolate gearbox, they weigh 15-20 kilos more than the alloy 115 bhp 1.6, which weighs not much less at all than the 128 bhp 1.9... |
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Nov 22, 2014 23:59:06 GMT
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TU gearboxes are curse word I killed 3 with my 140bhp Saxo.
If I had the chance I'd go the GTi-6 engine and get ready for supercharging.
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Some days you just need to take a grinder to an inanimate object, just to make your day a tiny bit better!!
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Correct me if I am wrong but didnt they make a TU gearbox with BE interals, think it was in the picaso.
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Last Edit: Nov 23, 2014 0:08:04 GMT by joem83
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Half right it was a BE gearbox that you could fit to the TU but the clutch was hydraulic and most of the ratios were shocking unless you planned big boost.
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Some days you just need to take a grinder to an inanimate object, just to make your day a tiny bit better!!
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Ahh right, bit rusty on this stuff, not had a 205 for 7 years lol.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Nov 23, 2014 19:04:24 GMT
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The 205 XUs are tunable with a bit of know how but generally the issues IIRC are with the stock heads (something a 2.0 head have resolved) and the inlet manifolds. But when GTi-6 engines provide around 170BHP (ish) straight out of the box in a reliable form it is a no brainer to go for one of those . The TU engine does respond well to tuning but the block itself is quite an old design and a heavy(ish) one at that. |
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edwell
Part of things
Posts: 199
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Nov 24, 2014 14:44:49 GMT
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However, to answer your question I do not think it is too tricky to do if you have two cars side by side. Welshpug is the man to ask . Starting off with an XU engined car may make life easier however. The rear suspension is dead simple to swap accross ; the front subframe (which is quite different on the GTi/non GTi cars) would be my area of concern. The front subframe does fit but apparently you need spacers between the subframe and body. Also the gear linkage pivot would be in the wrong place (depending on box used). I have the bits to do the swap on mine but not the inclination at the moment. As for the rear I just bought a knackered rear GTi beam for pennies and swapped the torsion bars and ARB onto my good base spec beam. I have heard that the GTi rear beam has a thicker/stronger tube but I cant see it making much difference TBH. A 16v TU out of a saxo vts /106 GTi would be an easy swap. |
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