Why you could be fined for letting an emergency vehicle past

[mitsuru]

I came across this and thought it might be something to pass on to you guys and have a discussion about it!

Why you could be fined for letting an emergency vehicle past
Pulling into a bus lane to allow a fire engine to overtake led to months of worry for one driver,

The Highway Code, normally the voice of reason for drivers, is of little use. Rule 219 advises motorists to "look and listen" for emergency vehicles and "take appropriate action to let it pass… while complying with all traffic signs".

Rule 141 advises: "You should not drive in a bus lane during its hours of operation."

www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/why-you-could-be-fined-for-letting-an-emergency-vehicle-past/

[Deleted]

let the emergency vehicle use the bus lane!!!!!!!!!

[stealthstylz]

Its also against the law to pull through a red light to let them pass. Unless I'm 100% sure there isn't a camera I don't move, even though they sit there honking the horn.

[DavidB]

^^^^^ What!? Lol

[luckythirteen]

You do what you can to let them by. Otherwise karma might come round and bite yer bum, when it's you who needs them.
That said, I can see the problem with fixed cameras. Surely there would be a way to appeal that?

[TurboDieselWeasel]

I'd rather pay a unwarranted fine than block a ambulance / police car etc. ... After all I myself would like them to arrive as bl00dy soon as possible if I needed one... Sometimes you have and can or MUST take a little suffering for a much higher purpose. Everything else is just plain ignorant and selfish!

[markgenesis]

I think you'd need to be really unlucky to get done for it, even if the police witnessed it, bus lanes with cameras are an awkward one though as cameras cant use discretion.

There was a story recently where a guy mounted the kerb as a fire engine was heading straight for him on the wrong side of the road, he could have just pulled into an enterance but i think he just panicked, would like to think the police would have just had a word with him and not do him (didn't find out the outcome)

[bavarianretro]

The most important thing is not necessarily to let them past. The key is not to impede them. You see it all the time. People panic when they hear the siren and see the lights and just can't wait to pull in to the side of the road immediatelty, wherever they are and whatever the road conditions. The ambulance or whatever then has to slow down to negotiate cars abandoned on both sides of the road, when if they had just carried on driving as quickly as legally possible until there was an appropriate place to let them pass, they'd actually have saved a few precious seconds.

There was a guy in Glasgow done for moving into a bus lane to let an emergency vehicle past. The even had a photo of the emergency vehicle in the photo they used to prosecute him IIRC.

[JohnK]

I've always been under the impression that it is their responsibility to find the most appropriate and safest route through. If we help them with that then so be it.

My conclusion - they can use the bus lane, I'm staying put!

[optimusprime]

When you learn to drive these days you are told not to pull in etc for the blue lights,as they are trained to get past/ round you.

[Ryannn]

Yepp, my friend got a fine for going over the line at a red light because there was an ambulance behind.

[taurus]

Jan 31, 2015 9:09:40 GMT optimusprime said:

When you learn to drive these days you are told not to pull in etc for the blue lights,as they are trained to get past/ round you.

I didn't know that. Living in a city centre I see a lot of younger drivers getting in the way of emergency vehicles - maybe the way they are taught to drive explains it.

Daftest thing I saw was a lady pushing a pram across a pedestrian crossing blocking an ambulance - because the lights were green for her to cross.

A mate who drive ambulances says the main thing is to make your intentions clear so the driver of the emergency vehicle knows you've seen them and they know what you're going to do.

[Curtis]

So many times I've seen people panic as soon as blue lights flash, the main route I take to work has a bus lane along the length of it. Most, if not all, emergency vehicles use that bus lane to get to the end of the road, on more than one occasion I've been in the queue and someone has pulled straight in front of the blues thinking they need to "get out" of the way, instead blocking their only route. My favourite one has to be watching traffic clear at one of the biggest crossroads in the city for an ambulance. The amby is muscling through 3 lanes of traffic towards the crossing, a luton van at the front in the left lane panics, pulls across the line and pulls in across the exit on the left. The Ambulance wanted to turn left, took Mr Luton a few seconds to clock what was going on, floor it, stall, then sheepishly pull off to continue straight.

My rule is as soon as I hear them is look for them, then look for the clearest path for them from their current position. If they're already on the clearest path, I'll stay where I am, if not, I'll make a path for them. On most occasions, the only time I will pull in is if they are lane splitting and I'm in one of the lanes their sharing (single or dual carriageways)

[Mr S]

Many moons ago, I saw a hit and run (motorcyclist knocked off on a roundabout by a car) and gave chase to the driver so I could get his number plate (I was also on my bike, on my way to work as a bike instructor at the time! - I chased for a couple of miles or so). The police asked me if I'd been through any speed cameras as they would have sorted it out so I wouldn't get prosecuted if I had, as if I hadn't got the number plate, they would have had nothing to go on. Bloke was caught, denied it, then when all the witnesses turned up in court he pleaded guilty before we even went in!

Not quite the same thing, but it does show that it is at the discretion of whoever is investigating the 'offence', and it can go the other way.

I also work at a hospital, and see so many people panic as soon as the ambulances put their flashing lights on - as others have said, use your head and try and work out the route that the ambulance is trying to take. If you can assist it on it's way then do so - the ambulance/police/fire engine might be on it's way to help your family or friends!

[EmDee]

YAWN

[Mr S]

[fordf350camper]

I would do what i need to do if that means moving out of the way i do just that.It could be on the way to someone you know,son wife friend i would feel better knowing i have helped than hear if they would have got there earlier they could have saved them.

[mitsuru]

I do use my head BUT!!! some people forget what are marked as bus lanes even if it is
just 10 yards if that! Plus the buses stop at bus stops and are effectively parked
blocking that lane. Delivery drivers are allowed to block roads for about 20 min when
delivering apparently so there is another reason for the bus lanes to be blocked!

[nomad]

My understanding is that you should move out of the way of emergency vehicles with blue lights on when safe & legal to do so.

Yes, moving through a red light or breaking the speed limit to avoid holding up an emergency means you have have the moral high ground, but it won't stop you being prosecurted for breaking the law
Years ago, it was considered sensible and never prosecuted, now with automated enforcement systems and inconsistent policing (sometimes sensible, sometimes "enthusiastic"), it's up to you to dispute the offence

There's 2 main problem cases :
You're first car waiting at a red light when blue lights come up behind you - do you go through the red light?
You're doing the legal maximum on single-lane carridgeway road with nowhere to pull off (we have lots of coned off lanes & 50mph speedlimits on our 2-lane motorways around here!) - do you speed up?

For anyone too busy to check the facts, links below might help confirm the legality.


UK.GOV highway code rule 219 : "take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs... Do not endanger yourself..."
www.gov.uk/road-users-requiring-extra-care-204-to-225/other-vehicles-219-to-225

Police advice
"It is important to remember that in committing the offence (crossing the stop line) the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through, and this may be considered as mitigation." ( < my bold)
www.thamesvalley.police.uk/faq-answer?id=Q699

Case study ( from Pepipoo - a very good legal forum!)
"A CONSCIENTIOUS motorist is counting the cost of his actions after driving through a red traffic light to allow an emergency ambulance to pass.
The junction had a traffic light camera and Mark Freeman's vehicle was filmed passing the stop sign, resulting in a fixed penalty fine from the South Yorkshire Safety Camera Partnership.
... after three court appearances reluctantly accepted the prosecution and pleaded guilty, receiving a £60 fine and £35 in costs."
forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t25519.html

Bluelightaware.org (a government site?)
"Or do you edge over the white line, through the red traffic signal, potentially putting yourself in danger, as well as breaking the law?"
"Rule 219 of the Highway Code gives no specific advice, yet the truth is that it is against the law form anyone to ‘run’ a red traffic light, unless they’re an emergency service vehicle on a blue light run. "
www.bluelightaware.org.uk/?p=239

Police discussion forum ( scary - including what offences you could be charged with if you don't break the law and go through a red light. Madness!)
www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php/topic/121080-moving-out-of-the-way-of-an-emergency-vehicle/

RAC discussion (but no agreement on what's legal )
www.rac.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?3044-Moving-out-of-the-way-for-an-Emergency-vehicle-when-lights-flashing!!


Hope it helps, have fun but stay safe (& legal!)

[optimusprime]

I am an Hgv driver, and have done my CPC over the last year or so.
One session the trainer asked the class this question, ie do you pull over,go through lights etc etc to let the blue light services a clear run.
Of course most of us said yes.

The trainer said thats not taught these days, and its down to them to get past you!
The emergency service drivers are aware that us mortal types are not to cross red lights,solid white lines etc etc.