Xinling GS Moon 250 - Diesel conversion

[Rich]

If you were expecting a cheap Chinese Moped, then prepare to be disappointed. This is a cheap Chinese buggy instead.

I have precious few photos of ours before we shut it in the garage to be converted, but for the un-initiated, they look like this. Ours has (flat) diamond tread tires though.



The story is, having spent a lot of time in Turkey, my dad for some reason or another fancied buying one of those 'hire buggies' you see everywhere in countries like that. So he did. For 2 years, we had it running for about 45 minutes, as it turned out to be the most unreliable pile of poop imaginable. We replaced the carb, the piston, barrel, coil, flywheel, hall ssenor/magneto, starter gear (3X times!) and eventually, money ran out for it. It refused to run despite having compression, spark and fuel. It should have worked. It just didn't. So it sat in the garden under a tarp until recently when we decided to make a start on it. A year ago my father bought this:



That's a Kubota 2 cylinder diesel, to be coupled to a CVT transmission. We are going diesel

Dragged it to the garage and laid it up, ready to rip its petrol gubbins out to do the heart transplant..



Now for some videos, we go to time-lapse now. Warning- some amounts of ass-crack!



We then had a think about how, what and where..



before hoisting it on the bench..







And then lobbing it back in to see how well we did.









We then took it out again and Dad painted it. He has a funny sense of humour. Took a while to coax it into life, lying on a pallet for a year took a while to shake off but its a runner



Next job is to finish tidying up the rust that has crept into the frame and refitting to make driveshafts. More soon!

[composimmonite]

I had an Aixam with a 500cc Kubota diesel. It used to cut out on tight / sharp left hand turns. The engine was designed for stationary use so when installed in a vehicle you have to tweak / fine tune some aspect of the pump or similar to avoid the cutting out due to G forces. Can't remember what is needed but Google should give you an answer.
Also the gearbox explode. Not if but when ! There is a circlip that wears and then fails so gear can then move outwards and bevel then pushed it though the casing. ONLY cure is to dismantle and change circlip every so often. Mine failed at under 5000 miles from new and required a new gearbox under warrantee. There is also a manufacturers amendment to the service instructions that requires a modified oil breather which 99% of vehicle never had done. Basically a tube attached to the filler plug / breather that raises it's height by around 6" so the gearbox will take larger quantity of (expensive !) oil that needed changing every 1000 miles.

[Rich]

Feb 1, 2015 9:28:38 GMT composimmonite said:

I had an Aixam with a 500cc Kubota diesel. It used to cut out on tight / sharp left hand turns. The engine was designed for stationary use so when installed in a vehicle you have to tweak / fine tune some aspect of the pump or similar to avoid the cutting out due to G forces. Can't remember what is needed but Google should give you an answer.
Also the gearbox explode. Not if but when ! There is a circlip that wears and then fails so gear can then move outwards and bevel then pushed it though the casing. ONLY cure is to dismantle and change circlip every so often. Mine failed at under 5000 miles from new and required a new gearbox under warrantee. There is also a manufacturers amendment to the service instructions that requires a modified oil breather which 99% of vehicle never had done. Basically a tube attached to the filler plug / breather that raises it's height by around 6" so the gearbox will take larger quantity of (expensive !) oil that needed changing every 1000 miles.

That's exactly where this motor comes from. We are using an electric pump for delivery which was something that was fitted to the Microcar as an addon with the mechanical pump bypassed so it may or may not help. I thought it was odd because the mechanical pump does actually work fine! And our gearbox has had the circlip replaced as it already has a big hole in the side plugged up with q-steel. What oil and quantity does the 'box take? We can't find any specs. We have put 2 litres of 75-90 in it for testing but could do with the proper grade.

[retrowrongun]

Be watching this closely as I actually have one very similar to this myself quadzilla micro but looks a lot smaller ,originally came with a40cc engine with a 2:1 reduction box and made 9mph woohoo !!!!!

Even my 10yr old said he could walk faster hahah so currently fitting a gx160 race motor from my karting days gone by and aiming for 35mph
Was going to put a kx80 motor in but decided against for now .......

Good fun hopefully
Yours looks very similar to mine thothought s why not fit a pulse pump like the karts have ? Not sure if would be powerful enough but works fine on kart motors 

[Rich]

Feb 4, 2015 8:25:28 GMT retrowrongun said:

Be watching this closely as I actually have one very similar to this myself quadzilla micro but looks a lot smaller ,originally came with a40cc engine with a 2:1 reduction box and made 9mph woohoo !!!!!

Even my 10yr old said he could walk faster hahah so currently fitting a gx160 race motor from my karting days gone by and aiming for 35mph
Was going to put a kx80 motor in but decided against for now .......

Good fun hopefully
Yours looks very similar to mine thothought s why not fit a pulse pump like the karts have ? Not sure if would be powerful enough but works fine on kart motors 

Sounds like a good little project. What's a pulse pump? I'm not too up to speed with karts. We have just finished building the new rear wheels, fronts are standard Wellers redrill end to 4x110, Rears are same width but we reversed the centres to get the track to match, the back end of this is oddly narrow.

[retrowrongun]

Pulse pump usually fitted to kart engine setups as it's for when gravity feed is an issue and you need to mount tank lower than carb
Uses a crankcase vent to pull fuel through will post pic later for you
It may or mate not work on derv but worth consideration as cheap
Google kart pulse pump sure there will be lots if info out there in them

In a nutshell the pump has three take offs inlet outlet and the vacuum from crankcase

[lightyearman]

this looks cool. Watchingzzz

[Rich]

Feb 4, 2015 14:09:02 GMT retrowrongun said:

Pulse pump usually fitted to kart engine setups as it's for when gravity feed is an issue and you need to mount tank lower than carb
Uses a crankcase vent to pull fuel through will post pic later for you
It may or mate not work on derv but worth consideration as cheap
Google kart pulse pump sure there will be lots if info out there in them

In a nutshell the pump has three take offs inlet outlet and the vacuum from crankcase

Ahh, I see. I have an electric pump. I don't think the Kubota engine generates vacuum. It's an atmospheric breather anyway and I already have a facet cube pump the will be mounted just below the tank, which sits directly above the engine. I don't think gravity feed is quite enough to keep it running happy from trails with coke bottles

[composimmonite]

Is this going to be a tractor type potter around vehicle or a wild off road / jumping humps sort of thing ?
Whilst the Kubota diesel will make an excellent tractor with amazing economy you will be extremely disappointed if you want performance. They have a very small rev range and not much scope to adjust gearing to get any thrills either. In my Aixam 0-60 was "no chance". 0-30 possible if you were prepared to wait / have a cup of tea. Top speed on a run downhill with wind behind was just over 40 mph - maybe 45 mph if a really steep hill
Sorry to be negative but I'd hate you to go to all the work only to find that a 125cc two stroke motorcross type engine would be more fun.

[Rich]

Feb 5, 2015 9:03:27 GMT composimmonite said:

Is this going to be a tractor type potter around vehicle or a wild off road / jumping humps sort of thing ?
Whilst the Kubota diesel will make an excellent tractor with amazing economy you will be extremely disappointed if you want performance. They have a very small rev range and not much scope to adjust gearing to get any thrills either. In my Aixam 0-60 was "no chance". 0-30 possible if you were prepared to wait / have a cup of tea. Top speed on a run downhill with wind behind was just over 40 mph - maybe 45 mph if a really steep hill
Sorry to be negative but I'd hate you to go to all the work only to find that a 125cc two stroke motorcross type engine would be more fun.

It's for pottering, economy, reliability (lol, dat gearbox doe) and promo work eventually as well as a field marshal vehicle for a small festival/show I volunteer at. So it's going to be perfectly adequate. It weighs a lot less and it's technically more aerodynamic than the Microcar but I'm not expecting anything beyond glacial.

[composimmonite]

Feb 5, 2015 19:58:55 GMT Rich said:

Feb 5, 2015 9:03:27 GMT composimmonite said:

Is this going to be a tractor type potter around vehicle or a wild off road / jumping humps sort of thing ?
Whilst the Kubota diesel will make an excellent tractor with amazing economy you will be extremely disappointed if you want performance. They have a very small rev range and not much scope to adjust gearing to get any thrills either. In my Aixam 0-60 was "no chance". 0-30 possible if you were prepared to wait / have a cup of tea. Top speed on a run downhill with wind behind was just over 40 mph - maybe 45 mph if a really steep hill
Sorry to be negative but I'd hate you to go to all the work only to find that a 125cc two stroke motorcross type engine would be more fun.

It's for pottering, economy, reliability (lol, dat gearbox doe) and promo work eventually as well as a field marshal vehicle for a small festival/show I volunteer at. So it's going to be perfectly adequate. It weighs a lot less and it's technically more aerodynamic than the Microcar but I'm not expecting anything beyond glacial.

It will do that job perfectly. Have you thought of adding a 240v generator so it can be used as a mobile power plant when neutral selected ?

[retrowrongun]

Sorry for thread hijack rich but loving this thread and here's my little version similar to yours
Well say its mine but its actually my 10yr olds hahaha and like I said just putting kart engine in as we speak




Very similar don't ya think ?

[Rich]

Feb 5, 2015 20:11:21 GMT composimmonite said:

Feb 5, 2015 19:58:55 GMT Rich said:

It's for pottering, economy, reliability (lol, dat gearbox doe) and promo work eventually as well as a field marshal vehicle for a small festival/show I volunteer at. So it's going to be perfectly adequate. It weighs a lot less and it's technically more aerodynamic than the Microcar but I'm not expecting anything beyond glacial.

It will do that job perfectly. Have you thought of adding a 240v generator so it can be used as a mobile power plant when neutral selected ?

No, not really. It's a nice idea but there isn't any space and it's redundant to our needs. We could use it for 12V, that is more appealing, but even that is a slim need.

[Rich]

Feb 6, 2015 1:03:16 GMT retrowrongun said:

Sorry for thread hijack rich but loving this thread and here's my little version similar to yours
Well say its mine but its actually my 10yr olds hahaha and like I said just putting kart engine in as we speak




Very similar don't ya think ?

That's awesome, like a baby version! The new GS Moon models come with bodywork, they look really odd now. Glad ours is quite early before they got overly fussy.

[retrowrongun]

Yeah prefer them bodyless as look better
Was just suprised at the similaritys that's all could have done with one like yours as it's not funny trying to shoehorn yourself into a buggy designed for nippers

[smurf]

If only i could find a frame for one of these

Theres a 750 sportsbike engine sitting in my lockup just aching to go in one

[chairchild]

tbh, if you ever feel the need for a 240v supply - just grab a 12v inverter. My 500w jobbie is perfectly happy running an angle grinder (under medium load I may add) and makes a half decent go of powering my sabresaw




Fit a decent sized battery to it, and it'll be good for jump-starting dead cars, as well as powering the invertor. If you go this route, a bigger alternator would obviously be a great help - old Rover 25s/45s/etc come with a decent sized alternator, and the diesel ones have a built-in vacuum pump... if you ever feel the need of such a thing on this, as they're pennies.



Looks like an awesome little toy

[Rich]

Feb 11, 2015 11:32:52 GMT chairchild said:

tbh, if you ever feel the need for a 240v supply - just grab a 12v inverter. My 500w jobbie is perfectly happy running an angle grinder (under medium load I may add) and makes a half decent go of powering my sabresaw




Fit a decent sized battery to it, and it'll be good for jump-starting dead cars, as well as powering the invertor. If you go this route, a bigger alternator would obviously be a great help - old Rover 25s/45s/etc come with a decent sized alternator, and the diesel ones have a built-in vacuum pump... if you ever feel the need of such a thing on this, as they're pennies.



Looks like an awesome little toy

Not enough room for a bigger alternator. Has to use the small Kubota one. Already has a moderately big car battery so jump starting won't be an issue. Shouldn't need 240, but yea, an inverter is the way to go.

[colnerov]

Feb 6, 2015 1:03:16 GMT retrowrongun said:

Sorry for thread hijack rich but loving this thread and here's my little version similar to yours
Well say its mine but its actually my 10yr olds hahaha and like I said just putting kart engine in as we speak




Very similar don't ya think ?

Hi, I like the 2/4 poster combination lift.

[retrowrongun]

Yeah although I think the cable has snapped as doesn't seem to raise and lower by itself now hahahaah