Building an engine..?

[envoycdx]

Ello all, wondering if anyone could give me some advice on this one.

Just to clear up a couple of things - I am fairly new to the idea of building an engine, I've done basic things like cylinder head gasket replacements, replaced the odd valve and cleaned up the tappets. I've even stripped an engine bare before - but I have never built one from the block up - so this is going to be a project within another project really.

I currently have 2 spare engines, sat about doing nothing other than taking up space (for various reasons). Now, I've been wondering what to do with them for a while, if it would be worth doing anything or just weighing them in. Engines in question are 18SE's from a MK2 Cavalier.

So - plan A was to rebuild 1 good engine out of the 2, with completely stock internals and electrics, but then I got a decent 60k lump for not much wedge and knocked that on the head.

Then, I thought, maybe I could upgrade the engine somewhat, running the 18Se on 20NE or 20SEH electronics to get rid of the horrid Bosch setup and get the wiring a bit more inkeeping with the MK3 Cav, allows for newer features such as cruise control to be tied in a bit better, and a fuel computer to be installed again. Though, I can't really find much information about that anymore - if anyone can point me in the right direction, that would be appreciated.

Then I thought about the above and figured - why not take it a step further - get the 1.8 block bored out, drop in some 2 litre pistons and build up a 2 litre lump instead - reasoning for this is purely down to any engine you buy that is 20 years old is likely going to require some work - so why not start with something you know?

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?
I have considered other engines, with more power - but for some reason, I just like these engines and want to see what can be done to make them better / more refined.

[slater]

Its fun but its also like pouring money down the drain.

[86corolla]

Rather than get it bored out..why not try your hand at some port and polishing.gasket matching...will prob see the same benefits boring it out as a good port and polish.4 branch manifold.etch
improve what you have.
also alot depends on what you want to with the engine.fast road.rally.drag race.
A short ratio gearbox will.help a little..

[envoycdx]

General idea is to move it closer to 150bhp and improve torque (or, ideally bring the power band further down the rev range)
Currently the 1.8 puts out 115bhp at 5400rpm. Torque I can't remember off the top of my head.

I might try my hand at porting and polishing - wonder what gains can be had from that - currently have a 4 -2 -1 sportex manifold, which did make a noticable difference when fitted.
Car is purely for road use.

[86corolla]

browsemags.com/vauxhall-august-1-2013/1994-eight-valve-tuning-guide.html

[envoycdx]

You're a gent - some light readng for tomorrow.

[86corolla]

[envoycdx]

Well. if the autograss community can get 150bhp out of a 1.4 engine, I don't see why 140-150 isn't achievable from a 1.8.

All food for thought

[nomad]

Feb 1, 2015 19:00:23 GMT slater said:

Its fun but its also like pouring money down the drain.

^ Wise words

There's a good reason I've thrown away my last engines when they got worn and bought "good used" ( also called "slightly-less-knackered"   ) motors to swap in.

The costs in an engine rebuild would soon add up to more than I paid for the car (pistons £300 + mains £30 + big ends £30 + oil pump £80 + gaskets / seals £50 + rebore/crank regrind £200 + stuff I've not thought of or find worn when I strip the motor + ... )

[envoycdx]

Fairly local to me it seems too.
To be honest, I had no idea a regrind was anywhere near 200quid!
But yeah, I know what you mean. Just never know what you're buying, especially if you can't hear it running before you buy it. It's a swings and roundabouts game I guess.

[slater]

To put it in perspective cost wise i have just rebuilt a modified engine for my morris minor and i have tried to do it on as tight a budget as i can. Now remember here i have a full engine building shop at my disposal so i get all the machining and such essentially for free and get a discount on alot of parts AND have piles of old engines to nick bits off to get me out of trouble. Even on my tight budget i had to spend roughly the following

Pisons - Free (had some cooper pistons spare)
Rings £50 a set
Shells £30+£30+£20 Mains/B-end and Cam
Cam kit £200quid NOS off ebay
Oil pump £20
Cam Drive £25 (new duplex)
Gaskets £30
Belt, Filter, Oil etc probably £50+
Twin SU carbs £200
Exhaust and Manifold £200 (2nd hand stainless)

So thats about £850 invested.

The engine i started with was cheap but was literally full of water so needed all the parts cleaning up (even blasted the block, crank and rods it was that red rusty inside!) and re-sizing, the head was an MG metro one off the shelf which needed porting, seats cutting, new guides, vales refacing etc. head and block skimmed, flywheel re-drilled to get it to all fit the gearbox i wanted. In addition i had to fit reliable Temp and Oil pressure gauges in the car.. The ignition stayed stock but isn't quite right really... The list goes on!

Personally my advice would be, if theres a better engine that will easily slot in then get it!, if thees not then go all out on your rebuild, spend a bit extra and make sure you get as good as spec as possible other wise theres little point.. that doesn't mean buy a race engine as such but get the best you can for your intended use..

[elmotheewokking]

Interesting thread. Timely too.
I'm torn at the moment about which direction to go with my Mopar 360 I got from Bruce.
Slightly different position to the OP though as I already have it apart and its not a like for like swap.
A quick freshen up with a cam slapped in, new intake and carb.
Or a total tear down, new flat top pistons, massive lopey cam, intake, bigger carb and get the heads worked over... Tricky.

[envoycdx]

Thanks Slater - that is good advise, I envy what you have at your disposal too.
When you say £50 a set for rings, I am guessing that that means you get a set of 3 rings per piston and that you actually paid £200 for rings alone? :/

There are a couple of routes I can go really.

I can go:
2litre 8v (not much work, a little gain power wise and can still have it looking fairly stock)
2litre 16v (c20XE) - tweakable, almost double the power what I currently have, parts are very readily available and there is alot of knowledge - but its been done 1000's of times before.
2litre 6 Turbo - as above really
SAAB 2litre - stronger internals, more tweakable than all the above, doesn't look fully stock - but livable (and cheap enough if you buy a full donor car)

All of the above bring into question what would the insurance company say though.

[86corolla]

By far the best engine is the saab lump..There very easy to tune..they can easily hand 400bhp in stock form...
an instant upgrade is putting a td04 from the aero as it's a full pressure turbo rather than light pressure...you'll have to change the oil lines if you td04 tho...

[envoycdx]

Currently, there are no oil lines in it. Everything would need to be transfered over I'd imagine.
Still a full donor car can be had for not much money I'd expect.

[breng]

The 1.8 is a good lump.

I have old fast car mags when they tried to fit a better cam - none offered any more than the standard one.

[envoycdx]

Feb 7, 2015 18:09:24 GMT breng said:

The 1.8 is a good lump.

I have old fast car mags when they tried to fit a better cam - none offered any more than the standard one.

You don't happen to have copies of the articles do you?

[skylinedave]

I would have ago if you want to , just for the satisfaction aspect . You may get lucky and find some replacement parts cheaper than expected due to the fact they are not in high demand , it all depend where you look for them , perhaps one of the small suppliers in the back of Practical Classics or similar .

You may also be able to reuse some of the parts anyway .

As for tuning , polishing and porting etc , Blydenstein ? used to claim big power increases from headwork in these engines , often backed up with magazine articles and features as well a works Vauxhall invvolvement so i would believe hose claims .

I'm betting you would get a good increase just by doing basic stuff to it , matching the manifolds to the head , removing flashings/casting marks and obvious obstructions . Getting 3 angle valve seats cut and you will get a good increase for little outlay .

[envoycdx]

Feb 7, 2015 18:21:40 GMT skylinedave said:

I would have ago if you want to , just for the satisfaction aspect . You may get lucky and find some replacement parts cheaper than expected due to the fact they are not in high demand , it all depend where you look for them , perhaps one of the small suppliers in the back of Practical Classics or similar .

Yeah, only thing I have to loose really is time and some money (I don't drink or smoke so.. gotta spend it somehow).

Feb 7, 2015 18:21:40 GMT skylinedave said:

You may also be able to reuse some of the parts anyway .

Thats the hope, use as many stock parts as possible.

Feb 7, 2015 18:21:40 GMT skylinedave said:

As for tuning , polishing and porting etc , Blydenstein ? used to claim big power increases from headwork in these engines , often backed up with magazine articles and features as well a works Vauxhall invvolvement so i would believe hose claims .

I'm betting you would get a good increase just by doing basic stuff to it , matching the manifolds to the head , removing flashings/casting marks and obvious obstructions . Getting 3 angle valve seats cut and you will get a good increase for little outlay .

Yeah, I had heard things about Blydenstein but didn't know if they were still going.
Wonder how much of this I could do myself, and how much of it is specialist.

[skylinedave]

I would get a book on head porting , and if you can read through it [ and find that sort of sad stuff interesting like me ] , you will realise you can do a fair bit a home with a dremal if your careful . More along the lines of getting rid of casting imperfections than enlarging the ports of grinding out the combustion chambers yada yada yada etc .

Maybe go on a vauxhall site , I'm betting someone has documented a 'budget engine rebuild ' somewhere .

Just be aware that some bits need doing properly which you will have to pay for . like measuring parts to check what needs doing to them and machining .