stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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Mar 23, 2015 15:49:08 GMT
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Hi, I'm servicing my 924 an wanted to change the spark plugs. The leads have always felt like a poor fit and the plugs had a threaded top where electrical connection is made, I always thought a 'nipple' should be on there to make the lead click on properly. The car has been like this for many years and works fine like that but it seemed wrong. So I bought these (Bosch WR 5 DC+) which are apparently correct for the Porsche 924... These come with a 'nipple' which I believe is normal for a 924. This is a comparison of the old plug next to the new one... The old one had just been contacting directly on the thread (bottom in pic) and the new one has a 'nipple' screwed onto that thread (which I though was correct) but now I can't push the lead on. I have put a fair amount of force pushing them on but it won't click on. Do 'nipples' come in different sizes (snigger) or do you not always use them? This is the old plug next to the lead boot, I tried Googling 'Beru ZLE 121' but didn't find anything useful about the 'nipple' size required. Also Googling 'BPR7E' shows the old plug with a nipple too. More nipple pictures just in case... What am i missing here? or am I just not pushing hard enough? Cheers, Steve.
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Mar 23, 2015 17:31:25 GMT
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Every car I've ever owned, from early 70's onwards, has always used the nipples in place. Sometimes the leads can be a very tight fit. I've seen older systems where the ends of the HT leads were a flat plate with a hole that fitted over the screw thread on the end of the plug.
I've never seen a push-fit system which simply connected to the threaded part of the spark plug.
However, I've always wondered why so many modern spark plugs had removable nipples - so maybe something as exotic as your Porsche uses that kind of thing.
I am very poor so I've never had a Porsche.
I'll be very interested to see what wisdom emerges from this question.
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Mar 23, 2015 17:35:51 GMT
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Hi, it's not about the plug per se, it's about plug cap. Some plugs have separate nipples some have integral, in one way you have been fortunate that the plugs have seperate nipples. As obviously you have nipple less plug caps. It's not the first time I have bought integral ones and caps won't fit and have then had to buy more plugs or change the leads.
Colin
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Mar 23, 2015 17:43:05 GMT
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IME* you need to make sure the plugs match the plugleads. Check the metal hole inside the plugcap, it should be obvious if the hole size suits a nipple, or non-nipple plug. ( just add nipples if/when needed < is there a better way to word that? ) * based on lots of Retro non-Porche motors
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Mar 23, 2015 17:50:42 GMT
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Indeed, I got a set of plugs and leads for my 924...the plugs had integral nipples but the leads leads were for a non nipple fit (both apparently OE spec?) I just got a new set of plugs and unscrewed the nipples....no issues
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Mar 23, 2015 17:55:35 GMT
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I do believe certain VW's, and most likely your Porsche given its heritage, do use the plugs without the screwed on part, so if the old plug worked and the lead wont fit the new plug with, unscrew them and pop them in!
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Mar 23, 2015 18:06:39 GMT
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Just suck it and see....sorry couldn't resist
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omega
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,060
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Mar 23, 2015 18:46:47 GMT
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I do believe certain VW's, and most likely your Porsche given its heritage, do use the plugs without the nipple on part, so if the old plug worked and the lead wont fit the new plug with, unscrew them and pop them in! fixed that for you
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doobie
Part of things
Posts: 271
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Mar 23, 2015 18:55:23 GMT
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Yep back in my first vw phase i used to run nipple-less and if the leads are a little loose just nip the caps with a pair of moles. Always thought you got a better spark with these caps so in these days of "replace replace replace" its probably why you don't see them much.....
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stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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Mar 23, 2015 18:59:56 GMT
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LOL @ colnerov Thanks for all the replies. It seems the consensus is there isn't a rule as such, some use nipples and some don't! But it looks like I can just twist/screw my nipples off and use them without as per the previous plugs. My only concern it that I was never convinced they fitted properly like that. There is a little spring wire in the plug lead where the connection is made and you can feel it jump up the screw threads and it does hold it in place, but it that it! Just a little spring clip and an electrical connection made through just touching the side of the screw thread? baggabones, did your 'non-nipple' leads fit very firmly? I know the rubber boot grips the plug quite well but was there much of a 'click' or feel of contact grip besides that? nomad To look at the plug on the lead I though it would click on the nipple but maybe its a bit small, just not so small to just be obviously the screw thread. welshpug could definitely be a VW/Audi thing. I have posted on the 924 board as well to see if they know if some other 924's are like this. Given how they were fitted before and what you guys have said I'm inclined to think I just take the nipple off and fit them as before, I just cant get over it being such a slack feeling connection. -Steve- Ps taurus I don't class anything about my 924 as exotic, It's largely VW/Audi after all. The 'poor mans' Porsche are a great cars though don't get me wrong.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:03:08 GMT
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I would say no nipples are needed. I have experienced this fitting on other cars, my sons moped and a variety of petrol driven garden equipment. I you are having to use a fair amount of force, and they are not "clicking" on, then remove the nipples and try again. You should be able to feel the plug cap running over the threads of the plug as you fit them together. I would only say that if you have been trying to force them on, then maybe you have damaged one, but try them and see.
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stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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Mar 23, 2015 19:24:22 GMT
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Just to add...
I have just removed a nipple from one of the new plugs and tried the plug lead on the new one and there is a much more positive 'zip' up the side of the screw thread. It feels like a more positive fit than on the one coming out.
-Steve-
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shin2chin
Part of things
Making curse word cars slightly better
Posts: 820
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Mar 23, 2015 19:42:00 GMT
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yep definitely sans nipple on a 924. I have the same ht leads.
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1977 PORSCHE 2.0na 924 1974 VW Beetle 1600
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stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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Mar 23, 2015 21:45:57 GMT
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Well I have swapped all the new plugs in (with out nipples) and it's running fine. Actually its running better than ever!
I think I had slightly lead my self up the garden path really. The plug leads were so loose on the old plugs that I though there was more of an inherent problem with how they were connected rather than them just being a bit loose/worn. The leads fit the new plugs much firmer, probably worth changing them for that alone then!
Thanks for all the help, you kept me at it!
-Steve-
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Mar 23, 2015 22:35:13 GMT
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Well you live and learn. I've never touched VW/Audi engines so now I know why modern plugs have removable nipples. There's some clever folks on here.
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they're not removable on all plugs, so if you do need to use a different heat range due to mods do make sure what you choose is compatible.
plenty of cross reference data on ebay etc.
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stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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jpr1977
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 656
Club RR Member Number: 18
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Mar 24, 2015 10:47:35 GMT
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All my old Mk1's and 'Rocco's had the 'nippleless' plug / lead combo's so it must be a VAG thing.
Though the last time i did the rocco i found the nipples were particularly hard to get off these days...
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jpr1977
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 656
Club RR Member Number: 18
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Mar 24, 2015 10:47:49 GMT
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2015 14:07:12 GMT by jpr1977
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