My brakes are too big.....

[Twitch6284]

Well.. I bought some lovely retro JDM 14" alloys for my flatnose 900. And it turns out that they don't fit over the rather odd front calipers... 
Simple, swap the calipers, I thought. Was going to use the standard Volvo 240 items, as they came under 14"s from the factory..

But this leaves the issue of the front handbrake situation, something I had overlooked by knowing feck all about Saabs...
Swapping the calipers for the Volvo ones would leave me with no handbrake..
And I don't really want to be going to the effort of swapping the rear brake set up as they work well and the new wheels fit fine at the back.

So I thought I could plumb in a hydraulic handbrake to the rear calipers, mounted in place of the original one, doing away with the cable one altogether.
This appeared to be the solution, yet I am told I MUST have a cable handbrake for the MOT... 

Can anyone confirm or deny this? As if this is the case my plan has unravelled quite spectacularly and its back to the drawing board.

Unless any of you guys have any fantastical ideas on the subject? 

[dodgerover]

Cables must be present for an MOT as far as I know, just make some fake ones and fit them in the appropriate place. Rally cars using a hydraulic handbrake have the same issue

[composimmonite]

Ask on a Saab forum how other people have solved the problem ?

[zippyobrien]

citrone xantias have a front hand break and 14s.

Or grind the curse word out of the caliper

[colnerov]

Hi, yes, handbrake must be mechanical not hydraulic.

Colin

[Twitch6284]

Much appreciated guys!

Saab forum has been pretty useless on all counts to be honest.. All my posts just get ignored pretty much.
Apart from the odd genius telling me to buy bigger wheels (as long as they're made by Saab..).
The endless purists are unhelpful and boring.
Thats why I thought I would ask here as your cars are much more interesting...

Yeah, a few people suggested dummy cables on facebook, but surely that would be obvious to anyone with half a brain?

Thanks Zippy, I will shoot down the scrappy see if I can find a couple of xantia calipers..
If this solves my problem there will be beers in it for you!

[gib]

What saab forums are you using?
As if you posted the gist as here i.e must fit under 14" rims must be front handbrake. Then there are virtually no options. People when changing instantly go for rear handbrake conversions as its the only logical ( to most) way forward and if you are improving the braking you are not going to go for a smaller disc as its a nightmare to try and find one due to the hat size.
Aren't zantia front calipers the same as CX's?? if so then there leg mounted so of no use.

What is your mechanical ability like ? I am not trying to be derogatory but you have a spare set of hubs which make the hat height clear and locating tabs for calipers even clearer esp. for mock up. If you need help on improving the set up I have converted a few front H/B cars to rear and improved the set up along the way but I can't think of any one who has tried to reduce the braking affect for the sake of fitting 14" rims and would struggle to think of a set up esp for a front hand brake car.

[colnerov]

Hi, the Saab forum that I use (I won't name it) are preoccupied with chipping them, driving fast and borderline obsessed about wheels and especially tyres. They have to have a full matching set of quality tyres and are aghast if you don't run summer and winter tyres on their owns wheels. They extol the virtues of the robustness and power of the engines then bemoan the fact lots of the cars a brought and broken for the engine to go in "lesser" cars.

Colin

[Twitch6284]

Sounds like we are on the same one Colin. It always has to be matching this and they get quite arsey about the thought of non-saab wheels.. I've just given up now.

I'd say I'm pretty good mechanically, qualified and such. I havent attempted something like this before, but I got given this car so I'm using it to try new things and learn more on. I have an ultimate goal of what I want the car to look like, and I'm just bumbling towards that slowly.. I was unaware there was minimal options for little front handbrake calipers, thats why I asked.. I knew there wouldnt be loads, as thats obvious, but I didnt know just how few options there were.

It seems pretty clear now that I will have to change the rear brakes too, although I am tempted by the hydro and the dummy cables idea, purely because that would be quick and easy solution if it worked, or I could find a friendly MOT man..

But once again that poses a pain, as the rear handbrake hubs and such for the 900's are 4x108(?) or something like that, so my 4x114.3 wheels once again wouldnt fit, therefore defeating the entire object.
and adaptors would be added unwanted cost and would make them stick out too much as the offset is spot on as they are. Its endless...

[composimmonite]

From a quick look it would seem original wheels are 15" so if you are wanting to fit 14" and are experiencing callipers fouling then I think you should seriously accept you have simply bought the wrong sized wheels.
It's not a case of "my brakes are too big" but rather "my wheels are too small".
Sorry but somebody needs to say it

[gib]

What is the back space clearance on your wheels?
Do they fit over the std. rear callipers? if your rims don’t fit over the rear callipers you are fighting a losing battle and as mentioned your wheels are too small for any practical setup on a Saab 99, 90 or 900.

If they do fit , using 114 hubs is simple with a top hat adapter that is easy to make and only increases the track by ~12mm for the rear and the front stays the same.
The first stage is to swap out the rear axle for a later 900 with rear handbrake, these are disc by the way . The swap Involves cutting out 2 holes which are stamped but not cut in the rear tub under the seat. And cutting the old hand brake mech. and welding in a rear hand brake mech. Takes a few hours.
On the front I can’t remember the lug spacing but its around 100mm from memory but as the lugs are so far back from the wheel centre line you have a lot of room to play with its just settling on the replacement hastle. I.e set it up for of the shelf discs or pick a disc with the correct hat height and get them redrilled. Hyundai for PCD or Merc for high top hats ( brembo on line catalogue is the place to search)


All of the above is simple and pretty quick to do if you have access to a lathe or mill if you don’t then forget it.

[gib]

Just looked at your trial fit of the cross spoke rims you have the well looks to be tapered. I would knock the studs out of those front hubs (Presumably they are 108PCD) and then get some measurements of them on there as std front hand brake callipers may work. As mentioned the brakes are back from the centre line.

[colnerov]

Hi, there is another option, the early 99,s on the front had a different physically smaller caliper and the handbrake was a pair of small brake shoes inside the bell of the disc. I don't know how easy they are to get hold of but you would probably need the uprights as well. When I had an early one years ago I put 14" Triumph stag steel wheels on, the only mod I had to do was to the backplate which was only pressed steel. If you go this route you will have to keep on top of maintenance of them because they can and do fill up with road dirt.

Colin

[Twitch6284]

Mar 31, 2015 14:29:58 GMT composimmonite said:

From a quick look it would seem original wheels are 15" so if you are wanting to fit 14" and are experiencing callipers fouling then I think you should seriously accept you have simply bought the wrong sized wheels.
It's not a case of "my brakes are too big" but rather "my wheels are too small".
Sorry but somebody needs to say it

Thats all well and good, but I havent bought the wrong sized wheels, I have bought exactly the wheels I want.. So it really is a case of my brakes are too big...

The wheels do fit over the rear calipers fine, and the fitment is exactly as I want it, which is why I ideally didnt want to have to change the backs..
And to be honest I don't care about practicality, thats not what this builds about.. Lets be honest if I cared about practicality I wouldnt own a 3spd auto from the '80s..
Let alone be slamming it into the floor on wheels that don't fit.. 

So your saying I could use the rear handbrake axle and set up from a later 900 on mine, but keep it 114.3 by re-drilling the discs from the rear handbrake model.. 
That makes a lot of sense, I will certainly look into that, thank you!
I'm not sure what you were meaning in that second bit Gib, but the standard front handbrake calipers are 4x114.3, but definitely don't fit under the wheels.

And that is just the kind of information I was hoping to find! If the early 99 calipers will take 14"s then you sir have just singlehandedly solved my problem... 

[RetroMat]

Rather than drilling hubs etc, It would probably be simpler to fit the later 4x108 900 rear handbrake axle and get something like this:

drivenperformance.co.nz/products-page/spacers-and-adapters/dpr-wheel-adaptor-4x108-to-4x114-3-15mm-1-5p/

or

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H-R-PCD-Adaptors-Citroen-4x108-to-fit-Honda-4x114-3-wheels-20-mm-1-pair-/380561531150

For front calipers get some that fit under the wheels and make up some adaptors. The front hub bolt holes look pretty standard, the calipers are girling, I;d have a go at some front calipers from something old and British, truimph etc? I've got some triumph and saab calipers in the garage I can have a measure up in a bit.

[Twitch6284]

Mar 31, 2015 17:43:01 GMT RetroMat said:

Rather than drilling hubs etc, It would probably be simpler to fit the later 4x108 900 rear handbrake axle and get something like this:

drivenperformance.co.nz/products-page/spacers-and-adapters/dpr-wheel-adaptor-4x108-to-4x114-3-15mm-1-5p/

or

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H-R-PCD-Adaptors-Citroen-4x108-to-fit-Honda-4x114-3-wheels-20-mm-1-pair-/380561531150

For front calipers get some that fit under the wheels and make up some adaptors. The front hub bolt holes look pretty standard, the calipers are girling, I;d have a go at some front calipers from something old and British, truimph etc? I've got some triumph and saab calipers in the garage I can have a measure up in a bit.

Yeah, it would be easier to use adaptors on the 4x108 axle, but then the wheels would stick out too far for the look I am going for, unless the later axle is narrower than the current one because the fitment is spot on now.. 

Well to be honest I'm going to look for some early 99 front calipers, because if those are smaller I wont have to change the rear at all.. 

Although, if you have something that might fit I would be more than interested in hearing more about it Thanks man

[RetroMat]

Ah got you!, I don't know if the later axle is narrower but as I've got a earlier axle i'm refurbing for my 900 in the garage I can tell you from hub to hub the pre 1987 axle is 1570mm. Maybe some one can help with the measurement of a later axle if you decide to go down that route.



Front Caliper spacing appears to be 89mm, after a quick google Lots of Fords (sierras etc) and some VWs use a 90mm caliper slider bracket. Could be food for thought!

[Twitch6284]

You sir, are a wonderful man!

Thank you very much for that

[ChasR]

This is brilliant. Smaller and lower power brakes on a retro when more morons are on the road. Priceless...

[RetroMat]

^ For that reason sourcing a Ford caliper (or similar) Would be better, you would probably end up with better brakes that would fit under the 14"s. The 900 brake pads are pretty tiny.