Alternator problems ? vauxhall viva help !!

[jordy]

Hi all ! 

I have a vuxhall viva HB 1967

i added an alternator a few moths ago , running fine - now I'm having troubles !!

so before - battery never died , and I have a cut off switch on the live on the battery - when running I could turn off this cut off switch and the car would still run until I turned off the ignition - right or wrong , this told me the brand new alternator was working .

so recently it's been running a bit rich , and the battery went dead on me the other day ( left the cut off switch on and the ignition light drained the battery ) , charged the battery and refitted it - and tried to fix the timing that was out by quite a lot!! Set the timing and the car won't start or run when the timing it set , so changed it back how it was , and the car runs quite iffy , cutting out at times and having to run the choke a lot .  During problem solving I notice the car is harder and harder to start - checked running it and turning off the cut off switch to the battery and the car stops.  So does this mean the alternator is not working? Checked all my wiring , changed solenoid, fixed up and loose connections and still no joy the car cuts out when I switch off the battery cut off switch ( whereas before the car kept running off the alternator) 

so ive added no additional electrics and apart from trying to improve the timing / tuning the carb I have done NOTHING to the car ! Highly frustrating !! 

So I'm not driving it at the moment because I suspect the car is running off the battery charge only - any ideas guys ? Ran fine now not 

the setup on the alternator is thick wire from the fat terminal onto the solenoid , solenoid to the battery , two fat wires from the voyage regulator are joined together 


another her thing is the starter motor is on its way out - could this have anything to do with anything ?

really appreciate the help guys - not driving the viva sucks 

[jordy]

Also - maybe something or nothing , with the Dynamo - turning on any electrics the engine dipped 

with the alternator - engine doesn't feel any extra power drawn like headlights and wipers , today I tried this and the engine didn't dip with lights on and wipers going - does this mean the alternator is doing something ? ! 

[colnerov]

Hi, it sounds like a bad diode in the diode pack inside the alternator allowing a leakage to earth and so run the battery down. If your not confident about dismantling the alt, testing the diodes and replacing the bad one or the whole pack, then put the alt into a repair shop. They will know what to do to fix it.

Colin

[jordy]

Thanks for the tips !

I just tried another battery from a scrap yard , and it act like it's dead even tho the scrap yard said it was a tested battery ( I normally avoid any electric stuff from scrapyards - normally curse word )

Luckily the alternator was new from Accuspark so I'll send it back I guess - I hope it's that !

[jordy]

Update ......

Changed the alternator - still not charging

My friend Sean overhauled the Dynamo - and we set it back to how it was set up - very weak charge - 12.3 at the battery / out of the Dynamo

Charged the manifold gaskets ( thought it was was leaking )

Changed points and condenser

Put original ht leads back on

New coil

replaced stater motor

Still runs very lumpy and the timing is way out - dies when you set the timing correctly


It does fire up every time and wants to start , from cold it appears to run and just needs timing done, but when warm and you start to dial in the timing the car runs really bad and dies , also the battery dies as its getting a very weak charge

i had a cut off switch that I think burned out the alternators , this is gone now - I've gone round all the wiring and replaced/ repaired any ad wires - I've cleaned the earth straps

We think the carb needs setting but it seems I have a serious electrical fault somewhere stopping the battery charging and giving me a weak / lumpy spark ?

Thankfully Sean ( viva HC ) is helping me out with this but we are both scratching ours heads at the moment ! Any suggestions are most welcome !! Missed two shows now !!

Seems like something is getting hot and then messing up all the settings

[colnerov]

Hi, it does sound like a bad earth, they can throw up some strange symptoms. Using one of your jump leads clip one on the earth lead on the battery it self and the other end on the engine, does this improve things? If so then there is still a bad earth connection some where. If when you clip the jump lead on is there a spark? If so, make sure everything on the car is switch off and do it again, if still sparking then there is a leak to earth. So again with everything switched off take the battery power lead off and reconnect with a bulb wired in between, if it illuminates then there is a leak to earth, so then go round disconnecting various components and generally moving the wires and loom about until the light goes out, as it's lost its earth. As the running deteriorates as it gets warm I would suspect the coil, Is it hot?

Colin

[jordy]

Hi Colin

Great advice there thanks ! I will try that later ( have my children at the weekends ) and I'll let you know ! I think you may be onto something there with the bad earth theory

I have just replaced the coil last week so I don't think it's the coil

thanks again for the tip - I'll try that and let you know !

[jordy]

OK !!!!!

Added another earth strap ...... No difference lol

Found a loose wire on the coil , replaced it - changed points

I was able to get it running again and set the timing ( battery STILL not charging properly , tops at 12.5 v )

Drove it - first gear ok, second starts to splutter - 3rd wants to die . Messed around with the fuel mix - nice tick over but still stalling under load . I took the top off the carb - felt like maybe a bit of dirt was getting stuck in a jet and causing the huffing noise and the stalling. Put it back together and tried to start it - I have a petrol fountain out of the carb lol

So I'm slightly better but not all the way ! I have a theory - I checked the float and noticed it catches on the wall of the float chamber , as the old carb did too but thought nothing of it at the time . I think what is happening - driving off in 1st was ok , second starts to judder , 3rd wants to stall - could this be the the float is stuck half way - valve is half closed and the chamber is draining quicker than it fills ?! Petrol fountain after cleaning the carb - could this be the float is stuck half way up and the valve is left open ??

Any thoughts guys ?!

[slater]

Voltage regulator gone tits up? If I were you I'd ditch it and run an alternator that gives you 14v. Thenstart chasing carb problems. One thing at a time!

[jordy]

I changed the Dynamo to another alternator - 14 volts !!

Car hesitates under load , still something wrong . Car is running lean I think - electronic ignition and new spark plugs next, re set the rockers , then I'll get a carb doc out !

[ivangt6]

Hi, take it you have a stromberg carb on the viva? if so and i apologise if you already know all this, get the car up to temp, nice and hot so you can get the choke off. remove airfilter and with a screwdriver, lift the piston up a few mm. if the revs rise and stay there, its too rich, if the revs drop off its too lean, if the revs initially rise and then fall back to idle then its about right. also worth noting that 20w/50 is about right in the dashpot. anything thinner and it'll initially go lean when you put your foot down.
Next up timing. For me the manufacturers set timing isnt where the car wants to be on modern fuel. so using a strobe light i set the timing to 0 deg and then find a flat bit of road. get it up to 30mph in 4th and put your foot down. at 0deg it should feel flat. i then start advancing the timing at 2deg intervals. so set timing to 2deg before top dead centre and try again and so on. it should start feeling a bit quicker every time until it starts pinging. when you get to this point, retard it 2 deg and it should be about right.
Hope this helps and anyone feel free to correct me if I'm talking rubbish

[barty]

sounds like you have sorted the charging problem now, as for the poor running, would it be possible to get it set up on a rolling road ? i know its not cheap but they can normally get it set up just right.
Having said that it shouldnt be that difficult to tune it yourslf, but sometimes another pair of hands on it helps

[droopsnoot]

Jun 18, 2015 10:35:09 GMT ivangt6 said:

Hi, take it you have a stromberg carb on the viva?

Also if it's a Stromberg, is the diaphragm in perfect condition? These are prone to splitting and can cause random (or worse) issues.

[jordy]

Thanks for the help guys

I decided to take off the nikki carb I had on there for a start ( never managed to get it going good )

I changed the alternator I had from a second hand engine , and it charges again ! However for some strange reason I have to keep the regulator box plugged in ?! Normally you just connect the two fat brown wires together and the regulator box is redundant but for some reason mine won't run without it ?!?

I replaced the coil and plugs and put electronic ignition - ITS RUNNING !! It's been driving pretty good, no hesitation however it doesn't pull like it did , maybe 95% of what it was before all the trouble - but it runs nice , but I notice it gets hot - quickly .

I noticed fuel leaks out of the hinge on the lower butterfly on the carb when I turn it off - I'll rebuild this when I find a kit !

I added an electric fan instead of the one on the pulley , starts easier and the fan works great - apart from if I turn on the headlights the fan slows and the car gets hot very quick !!! ( I have a temp gauge ) so I'm thinking it's got an electrical fault somewhere as I have No stereo or anything like that to run .


I'm thinking of getting a pro to come and do the carb for me - and I think the rockers need setting as I think it's running lean ( slight lack of power and getting so hot ) it gets hot within 2 miles from cold with easy driving

As for the electrical part - I've no idea ! It's pretty much back to how it was but I still think there is something wrong there - the output on the alternator is around 14.3 as before it was struggling at 11.5v

I've spent heaps on it now trying to get it back to how it was !! Really missing driving it - God knows what I've done with it lol hopefully we will find the problem soon

[droopsnoot]

Surprised that changing the fan for an electric one makes the car start easier. My recollection of a Viva fan suggests that it wouldn't have enough air resistance to make any difference one way or the other - it's not that different in size from the viscous one on my car. I'd have thought there would be more resistance from turning the water pump than the fan, and of course you have to leave that bit in place.

It does sound something seriously wrong electrically, but nothing that jumps out remotely. Methodical checking of all connections and earths is probably the way forward. Has the loom been messed with in the past, could there be "issues" in there that should be resolved? I have no experience with dynamos so no thoughts on changing from one to an alternator.

[jordy]

Thanks for the thoughts !

I agree there must be something seriously wrong with the electrics somewhere , mad thing is it was working perfectly for months ! I haven't done anything with the electrics recently - the only things I have done in the past is added clocks that illuminate - this is wired on the headlight switch , headlights from square to twin - but these are wired same as the old ones , and a cigarette lighter

I think I'm going to undo all the wires on the clocks - and undo the cigarette lighter and see what happens there , really scratching my head ! I did notice the spark plugs are white at the moment suggesting it's running lean too , but the electrical part defo has a problem somewhere - the alternator should cope with everything on but there is a dip as soon as I turn everything on - lights wipers and electric fan

[jordy]

Update .....

Checked all my wiring - was fine , no lose wires and solid earths

Driving it today I may have found something , I converted my headlights from the crusty square ones to twin round headlights from a jag , my mate wired them up using the existing plug . all looks good on the wiring and he knows his stuff - however today I noticed , the temp gauge ( mechanical one - not wired ) when the headlights are on the water temp rises ?!?!

I put on the original fan ( on the water pump pulley ) and the electric fan is now a back up on a switch - so why on earth does the water temp get hotter with the lights on ?? This must mean the engine temp is getting hotter making the water hotter , and I tested this on tick over - watching the needle rise as the lights are on and the needle fall when the lights are off , also I have a battery/ alternator meter in the car - when the lights are on the lights flicker , anything else powered and it doesn't flicker .

Really baffling !! Any auto electricians out there to help ? Previously it didn't have any problems like this for months with the headlight conversion - it's not causing me grief , but I don notice a slight lack of power and the car seems to run hotter now

[jordy]

Another thing , my voltage regulator is totally disconnected now - so I don't have an ignition light but apart from that I couldn't see what the point of it was after the alternator conversion

[colnerov]

Hi, right two things connect up the the warning light again it needs a supply from the ingition switch and earths through the altenator, at the very least it will tell you if the alternator is charging. Plus it needs that voltage to tell the regulator to start charging and control it.

The other thing is check the earths for the light conversion to make sure they are good. It sounds like they can't get an earth properly so are getting it where they can, which is probably through other bulbs to their earths, in this case I think is the instrument bulb which if its in a plastic dash is through the capillary tube to the engine and is warming up a giving a false reading.

Colin

[jordy]

Thanks Colin I'll try that tomorrow and give you an update !