1996 Citroën Xantia Activa TCT - Track cars should not roll!

[freddieh]

Hi! Long time lurker, but almost first time poster.

I'm Fredrik, and I live in Linköping, Sweden. After a couple (OK, maybe like five) years of doing Formula Student, I needed to get my engineering and design cravings to work on something else (maybe something I could fit in?), so I figured I'd get myself a track car project. BMW? Porsche? Nah, sounds too simple. Why not something more ridiculously complicated that almost no one else have tried, so I need to make everything from scratch? Sounds good ...

Long story short; I'm trying to build a Citroën Xantia Activa as a track car. I think it will be fun! 

Some pictures!

It started somewhere along here:
IMG_1300 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

To get here (actually getting a garage) took half a year:
Garage_2 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

Garage_1 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

Then me and the friend I share the garage with went berzerk and did this in one day:

IMG_1543 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

IMG_1547 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

IMG_1545 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

IMG_1548 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

IMG_1550 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

IMG_1544 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr
This (uppper radiator mount, hood lock mount etc) weighs in at about 5kg, but the front bumper (sans foglights) is 8,3kgs! This car needs to get on a diet ...


Right now, focus is on examining the car and figuring out a) the general condition, b) what needs to be replaced, c) what can be removed and d) what can be moved backwards in the car. A diesel Xantia (the only one I have found figures for) has 62,6% of its weight on the front axle! The body seems in fairly good shape, but there are some hydraulic leaks that I need to fix and I need to do a general overhaul before the car gets assembled again. Hopefully, I can get it to a track in the spring. 

[diogogaspar]

I drove a xantia ativa turbo CT back when they were new and was amazed by the way it handled, looking forward to this!!!!

[darrenh]

really interesting project

so is yours the low blow 2.0 turbo petrol ?

[Anthony]

This should be good I reckon.

Friend of mine used to have an Activa that I drove fairly extensively, and it really was eye-opening what you could do with it in the dry even on distinctly middling road tyres - turn into a corner quicker than you thought sane and it just turns and grips with no lean.

I always thought that with a bit of weight loss and some slicks it would make a rather effective track day car, and I guess that you're about to prove that theory! I'll certainly keep my eye on this thread

It was a shame that Citroen didn't use the concept more widely as it is so effective, and equally a shame that the UK didn't get the V6 Activa that was available on the continent.

[alphilsta]

Jul 29, 2015 10:32:49 GMT freddieh said:

Long story short; I'm trying to build a Citroën Xantia Activa as a track car. I think it will be fun! 

I've heard a lot of the Activa's technology and abilty, but never saw one used in anger, so this is very interesting! I'm looking forward to see how this turns out, especially when the car is prepared by someone with your background.

Good luck!

[mylittletony]

As above really, I really quite liked my mega-shoddy 1.9td. Handled well, despite the roll. An activa on a diet has a lot of potential - bookmarked!

[freddieh]

Thanks for the feedback!


Yes, the TCT is the 2,0 liter turbo version, the engine used in almost everything that came out from PSA in the 90's. Not the most inspiring power unit, but it can be tuned into something with appropriate amount of punch.

I have never seen one properly modified and driven either, but people keep talking about what it could do.

[madaxgt]

Awesome love this, saw it on rejsa but my swedish isnt good enough yet. Should be interesting to see what you can get to happen with the car. Getting weight off that front is a must as you say, not sure how you will do it, lighter wheels and brakes would help.
Are there different hydraulic spheres you can use like from an XM estate to change the effective spring rates? Do they still use torsion bar rear springs? I expect the anti roll bars are completely removed. Be good if you could modify software too! So many things to mess with compared to a normal car.

I never had the balls to buy one of these, wish i had. Cool project.

[murdock]

Good idea, will follow this with interest. I liked both my Xantia's, even though one was affectionately called 'The Shed' and it was..... Never let me down though, miraculously :-O

[freddieh]

Sept 9, 2015 22:20:01 GMT madaxgt said:

Awesome love this, saw it on rejsa but my swedish isnt good enough yet. Should be interesting to see what you can get to happen with the car. Getting weight off that front is a must as you say, not sure how you will do it, lighter wheels and brakes would help.
Are there different hydraulic spheres you can use like from an XM estate to change the effective spring rates? Do they still use torsion bar rear springs? I expect the anti roll bars are completely removed. Be good if you could modify software too! So many things to mess with compared to a normal car.

I never had the balls to buy one of these, wish i had. Cool project.

I'm not sure if the spheres could be swapped, but there is a possibility to inflate them to different pressure than stock. A lower pressure would result in stiffer suspension. 
No torsion bars in the rear, the anti roll bars are there but made as an extremely stiff ARB mounted to one hydraulic actuator (instead of one of the levers to the wheel) if I understood it correctly. 

Not much has happened since last time ... I have been removing floor mats, the seats and bought a spare engine. Hopefully, it's solid enough to serve as a base for a more built engine for the next phase of the project. 

I'm looking for a race seat, FIA approved and fitting for me (195cm, 120kg approximately). Any suggestions? 
Also: tyres. I want semi race tyres (are they called R tyres in English as well?) with really stiff sidewalls and with a predictable behaviour. From 15" (in that case they really need to have a stiff sidewall) to 17" (since I will have quite low profile tyres if I run those, I guess sidewall stiffness will solve itself more or less?) and not extremely expensive. Any suggestions there? 

And some pictures, though not that impressive:

IMG_1678 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

IMG_1677 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

[Chris™]

Excellent project! What formula student team were you part of? Had 4 years of doing that myself!

[freddieh]

Nov 3, 2015 20:52:28 GMT Chris™ said:

Excellent project! What formula student team were you part of? Had 4 years of doing that myself!

Thanks! I was one of the founders and members of the Linköping University team, ELiTH Racing or LiU Formula Student. It was the most idiotic and best idea I've ever had! 

[Chris™]

I do remember seeing a couple of those cars! It really is a time zapper but so very worth it

[freddieh]

Definitely! Which team were you in?

[diamondhell]

R-rated tyres are what you're talking about - typified by the Toyo R888, although there is a wide range of options available now.

195/50 R15 are generally very cheap in whatever specific tyre size you are looking for, although if the weight is over 1200-1300kg you may want to look at some other options, as they seem happier on lower weight cars.

Corbeau do 'XL' bucket seats - I'm 180cm and 95kg and there's plenty of space in them, unlike most shell-buckets which are designed for pixies. However, if you're going to fit buckets like that then you're into harnesses and to fit harnesses you'll need a cage, with harness bars - it's something of a sprial to get into!

I remember the Activa well from the 90s and it was supposed to be quite a thing - it'll be interesting to hear how the electronics have held up after 20 years!

[BT]

Corbeau do a nice range called the club sport, it also comes in XL, unfortunately it is not FIA compliant. What series are you looking to compete in? some classes do not require FIA approved items, some will accept FIA approved items that are out of date meaning you can jump into the pre-owned market.

My last FIA approved outfit was from JJC i seem to recall. think I paid about 350 for seat, rails and harness. all FIA approved, in a large man size, and i was very pleased.

JJC seem to hae top customer service as well, they sent me out a faulty item once. i simply emailed them a photo with less than 10 words and they sent me out another one completeely free of charge.

[rallyboy]

Nov 3, 2015 19:03:50 GMT freddieh said:

I'm looking for a race seat, FIA approved and fitting for me (195cm, 120kg approximately). Any suggestions?

Motordrive Pro4 Tall

[freddieh]

R-rated tyres are correct! 195/50 R15 would be cheap, and getting the Citroën C5 "alloy steelies" (they're rediculously light!) are tempting, but the kerb weight of my car is 1520kg and realistically I don't believe I'll get a long way under 1200kg in the first phase. And are there any R-rated tyres with very stiff sidewalls? Since the car won't roll, the sidewall will be the only thing that gives in when cornering.

Corbeau and Motordrive seats are interesting, I'll look into them!

I'm planning to go Time Attack driving here in Sweden, and while I plan to enter a class where FIA approved seats are not mandatory, I don't want to use the stock leather seats and thought it would be a good idea to get "the real deal" right away before upgrading to roll cage for the next phase (if it all goes my way, the first phase will be 2016 and the upgrade will be done next winter).

[koukku]

Looks like a nice start. Any updates?

For tyres I'd recommend Yokohama AD08R. They should handle multiple heat cycles better than R888 and maybe last a bit longer too. They also grip quite nicely in the wet, although puddles can be a bit scary, like with any semi slick tyres.

I'd highly recommend getting an LSD too. Quaife makes one for the ML5T box these days, although I think they're built for order only.

Have you thought about how to overcome the Activa doing this when there's enough grip:

www.citikka.info/gallery/var/resizes/Ratapaivat/Kes%C3%A4rata-2015---Pes%C3%A4m%C3%A4ki/IMG_3763.JPG
i11.servimg.com/u/f11/16/19/40/01/xantia10.jpg

The first one is running Yokohamas, don't know what the tyres are on the second one. Those are both V6 which may be a little more front heavy, and of course they have not been on a diet like yours.

[freddieh]

Mar 10, 2016 8:03:39 GMT koukku said:

Looks like a nice start. Any updates?

For tyres I'd recommend Yokohama AD08R. They should handle multiple heat cycles better than R888 and maybe last a bit longer too. They also grip quite nicely in the wet, although puddles can be a bit scary, like with any semi slick tyres.

I'd highly recommend getting an LSD too. Quaife makes one for the ML5T box these days, although I think they're built for order only.

Have you thought about how to overcome the Activa doing this when there's enough grip:

www.citikka.info/gallery/var/resizes/Ratapaivat/Kes%C3%A4rata-2015---Pes%C3%A4m%C3%A4ki/IMG_3763.JPG
i11.servimg.com/u/f11/16/19/40/01/xantia10.jpg

The first one is running Yokohamas, don't know what the tyres are on the second one. Those are both V6 which may be a little more front heavy, and of course they have not been on a diet like yours.

Thanks! But if you are who I think you are, you have already seen some updates 

The LSD diff is on some sort of group purchase on the Swedish Peugeot forums, I just need to decide on spending the money before they order from Quaife.
Regarding the Activa lifting its rear wheel, I have no idea right now. I have a hypothesis that it might have to do with the "brake anti-dive system" becoming overloaded, but I'm definitely not sure.


The project is progressing slowly but steadily. A fortnight ago, I got hold of 17*8" ET35 wheels in the correct PCD. They almost fit ...

IMG_1831 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr 

IMG_1825 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr

IMG_1829 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr 

IMG_1832 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr 

I need to check how much spacing I need to run these (I'm guessing around 30mm), and build fender flares according to where they would end up. In the end, I might go for wheels with lower ET to not have to run such thick spacers on track.



Oh, and also, this:
IMG_1839 by Fredrik Henriksson, on Flickr


I found another Activa nearby, this time with the 2.0 liter 16V engine. That one will be kept mostly stock, and run as a simple track toy.