tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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Aug 13, 2015 16:21:38 GMT
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So.... Where do I start? I'm a beginner, never handled a job like this. I have an angle grinder, some sheet metal, but can't weld. I would love to be able to get as much prep done so that if I find a friendly welder they can just weld in what I have done. What confuses me is that I am working on several different panels that marry up in the end. Not concerned about looks, rivits and gunk are fine by me but would like it to be safe. Make sense? Thanks.
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,513
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Aug 13, 2015 17:22:10 GMT
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If you're interested in safety then forget about rivets and gunk to hold it together and make sure the welding is done competently.
You need to try and see it as several pieces to a puzzle rather than look at the whole lot and think 'How am I going to do all of this!'
Also, consider the access required for each part to fit in and be welded. It may be easier to make the hole bigger is some respects to gain access or make forming repairs easier. With this sort of localised thing larger holes don't normally take much longer in terms of the actual welding.
You might find it tricky to make all these bits loosely and then try and get them welded all in one go. It is likely that you'd have to make a couple, weld them in place and then you've got new metal to work to when making the next pieces.
Looking at the pictures I think I'd work inside out, ie deal with the floor and inner panels first and last would be the outer arch and sill end.
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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tdipd
Part of things
Posts: 121
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Aug 13, 2015 17:27:30 GMT
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Last Edit: Aug 13, 2015 17:27:51 GMT by tdipd
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Aug 13, 2015 17:40:14 GMT
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That's good advice from Seth.... With regards to the floor and inner wheel tub, as a beginner I would suggest forming the repair section in two pieces. Make the red and green pieces in your pic from one piece of steel, and the yellow from another. Weld them together off the car, then weld into the shell as one. Make templates from cardboard first, then transfer the shape onto your sheet steel. Cereal boxes are ideal for making templates. When you make the yellow piece, add about 10mm to the two edges that adjoin the other pieces, then bend the extra to 90 degrees. Welding the tab to the other piece will make the welding much easier than butt welding it... Looking at the condition of the remaining metal, I think you're gonna have to cut more out than you have currently, but as Seth says it won't make a big difference to the process and you'll have fresh steel to work with. Have a look at the thread by tonybmw for inspiration and tips on how to make repair panels. Good luck with it, and keep asking on here for advice if you get stuck. I'm sure we'll all help you along...
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'96 Volvo 850T5 x2, '97 Alfa 145 Cloverleaf '96 Alfa 155, '91 XR2i 2.0 Zetec (sold), '88 BMW 520i slug (sold), '81 Escort Mk3 Project, '68 Mk1 Escort Estate, Berlingo Parts Chaser.
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Aug 13, 2015 17:56:54 GMT
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Just to add to the comments above, it might be a good idea to find a " friendly welder" first, and run it by him before you start, as he may want the panels made up a certain way,and may want to weld them in a certain order.
Saves making up the repair sections,and then having to remake them as the welder needs them another way.
Just a thought.
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tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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Aug 13, 2015 18:01:00 GMT
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Thank you all for your fast and useful advice. Not being able to weld and the fact it's the same on the other side and front wheel arches, and both sills I think this thread has inadvertently answered the question.
"How much time and money should I put into a not particularly special car that I feel nothing for"
It was purchased cheap for fun, but I'm out of my depth, financially and technically.
I feel it'd be better value to spend my money on a car that I like, and that isn't a total rust bucket.
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Aug 13, 2015 18:01:04 GMT
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Good point indeed sir ^^^^^. As most know, us welders are a funny bunch, each with his own methods...
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'96 Volvo 850T5 x2, '97 Alfa 145 Cloverleaf '96 Alfa 155, '91 XR2i 2.0 Zetec (sold), '88 BMW 520i slug (sold), '81 Escort Mk3 Project, '68 Mk1 Escort Estate, Berlingo Parts Chaser.
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tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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Aug 13, 2015 18:01:23 GMT
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Shortest thread in history.
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Aug 13, 2015 18:05:52 GMT
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Never mind if the thread is short, as long as you got the advice you needed and didn't end up with a money pit that you felt no love for, then the thread has served its purpose....
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'96 Volvo 850T5 x2, '97 Alfa 145 Cloverleaf '96 Alfa 155, '91 XR2i 2.0 Zetec (sold), '88 BMW 520i slug (sold), '81 Escort Mk3 Project, '68 Mk1 Escort Estate, Berlingo Parts Chaser.
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Doyal
South West
Posts: 168
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Aug 13, 2015 18:08:18 GMT
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That it may be, but I've just spent 10mins watching your avatar, Tome30!!!
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BMW E28 M535i dog-leg
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Aug 13, 2015 18:13:08 GMT
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Good point indeed sir ^^^^^. As most know, us welders are a funny bunch, each with his own methods... Not just that .... I was making some stuff ages ago, got it all prepped etc .... Only when i got the welder out i realised that you couldn't actually get the welding torch in position to actually join the steel together Doh!!!!!! Cue much swearing at myself!
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tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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Aug 13, 2015 18:21:11 GMT
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Well I've learnt to change a head gasket and got the engine running again, so that's one lesson. Stripping out the interior was strangely fun. I can probably get £70 for it at the local scrap yard, thrown £150 at it for new gasket set, plugs etc. So I'm about £180 quid down, worth the experience? Yeah, why not!!! The other thing I've learnt is, even when buying a £100 car to 'play' with, check for rust.....properly!
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Aug 13, 2015 18:37:44 GMT
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That it may be, but I've just spent 10mins watching your avatar, Tome30!!! Hi, not just me then I did it the other week on the headgasket thread. Colin
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Aug 13, 2015 21:05:21 GMT
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If it's just a car to play with,why not pick up a cheep used welder and have a go at it yourself?
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1955 Austin A30 1981 Jawa Mustang 1990 Trabant 601 (Tommy) 1989 Trabant 601 2009 Jaguar XF 2012 Toyota AYGO 2018 Scomadi TL
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Aug 13, 2015 21:36:02 GMT
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For what you would have to pay someone to weld that lot, you're getting towards the price of a halfway decent welder and a bottle of pub gas, you might as well just learn to weld and do it yourself. I can't imagine any welder would want to work with patches a total novice had made - I'd consider myself reasonably good at that kind of work but half the time I curse myself when trying to stick them in.
Welding body panels is really not all that hard, just fart about with the power and wire feed til it sticks stuff together without blowing holes then work from there. A weekend of farting about with scrap panels will get you most of the way there, just follow the tutorials on mig-welding.co.uk and you'll be grand.
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Aug 13, 2015 22:30:27 GMT
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^ I'm thinking same as Cobblers retrorides.proboards.com/thread/170823/welderWhat the plans - sell it on Eb'y as running but spares/repairs? You'll loose nothing (apart from time) if you can borrow - or buy a cheap - welder and try fixing the holes... I got a new Clarke for under £300, you should be able to get a scruffy but working set under £100 Selling it before getting too deep into a major rebuild is also a sensible option
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Aug 13, 2015 22:42:50 GMT
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Honestly you may as we'll practise welding on it, there was a mig in the parts for sale section for 75£
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tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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Aug 13, 2015 23:36:13 GMT
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I do give up easily. Sadly i feel I often post on retro rides not just for the wealth of info, but for a bit of reassurance and support. My girlfriend always says "what did retro rides say?" When she knows I'm online panicking. I think I'm just a little scared of spending too much money, but then if I do manage to get it on the road eventually, what a feeling that would be! Let's say I buy this .... I live in Sweden .... www.biltema.se/sv/Verktyg/Svetsning-och-lodning/MIG-svets/Svets-MIG-140-2000022913/That's £179, so cheap for a MIG I guess.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:49:27 GMT
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Just to add to the comments above, it might be a good idea to find a " friendly welder" first, and run it by him before you start, as he may want the panels made up a certain way,and may want to weld them in a certain order. Saves making up the repair sections,and then having to remake them as the welder needs them another way. Just a thought. That's what I would say, no professional welder will want you turning up with a box of jigsaw pieces they will prefer to make their own panels to suit their own style of constructing repair sections and as for the 'rivits' comment don't even bother thinking about it.
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Aug 14, 2015 11:17:42 GMT
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Last Edit: Aug 14, 2015 11:19:16 GMT by droopsnoot
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