Any Ford heads? Problems with my Mk3 Escort

[secondchance]

Hello,

I wonder if there are any Ford minded people out there who can possibly help me with some aggro I'm having with my Mk3 Escort.

Its a 1984 Escort L, originally fitted with an 1100 OHV Valencia Crossflow engine, 4 speed gearbox, VV Carb.

In the last few months I have swapped the drivetrain with that of a 1987 MK4 Escort 1400 CVH donor car I bought. I have also upgraded other bits and pieces for the conversion, from other 80s Fords, as I have listed below. When fitting, the timing belt and tensioners, oil filter and oil, plugs, leads, dizzy cap, rotor arm, 3-piece clutch kit were all replaced with brand new parts

So...

My Escorts spec is now:

MK4 Escort 1.4 CVH Engine
Weber DFTM Carburettor (MANUAL CHOKE)
MK3 Escort 1.6 Engine Mount
MK3 Escort 1.1 Gearbox Mount (Original)
MK3 Escort 1.6 Injection 5 Speed Gearbox
MK4 Escort 1.4 Vented Front Brakes
MK3 Escort 1.6 Shocks and Springs
MK3 Escort 1.6 Radiator

Hopefully that gives you an idea of the state of the car. The donor MK4 I bought was running and driving until very recently, although I only drove it when loading and unloading when collecting it. Seemed OK.

Now, the problem I am experiencing is that when idling, it runs OK. You can start without choke, rev it as much as you like, and it will return to idle as normal. No coughing, no spluttering, no cutting out.

Drive it for a little while, and its got plenty of poke, responsive throttle and feels good. HOWEVER, after a little while, it will unexpectedly begin to play up. It cuts out when you are slowing down and changing down the gears. It cuts out when stopped idling, for example at lights, crossings and roundabouts. If you are driving along and, purely as a test, were to depress the clutch and select neutral, it cuts out. After its been doing this, then the car wont idle or drive without over half choke.

So far I have replaced the carb with an identical replacement, and done the following to both units with no success; cleaned and blown though the jets, replaced carb to intake manifold gaskets, adjusted the mix screws (resolves for at least one drive), cleaned and lubricated all moving parts.

This carb (Weber DFTM) appears to be abit of an odd one, I cannot seem to obtain a gasket rebuild kit for it easliy, if indeed that will make any difference.

The frustrating thing is that I cannot get this car to run nicely or reliably. Will replacing the carb with a different, more common unit resolve this, or do I have more serious engine problems? Maybe its not the carb at fault? I don't know.

I have always wanted to make this car XR3 spec (1.6 CVH), unfortunatley had to settle for a 1.4, but saw this as an opportunity to do a 'Version 1' of the car, then upgrade as I collected parts or encountered problems. At the moment, I feel so disheartened with it, as well as feeling like i have made a mistake financially. The car isn't going anywhere, it has incredible sentimental value so I need resolution to this problem. It drove better with a 1100 with a VV, if you can believe that!

I am considering several things, these are what I see as my options;

Buying an XR3 intake and carb
Replacing with a 1600 CVH as I originally wanted
Replacing with a 1600 CVH INJECTION (EFI/MFI/Very late 90s setup)
Replacing with a Zetec of some description (Probably beyond my skills- would have to farm out)

Does anyone have any advice to get me going and enjoying my car, or advice regarding further engine swaps? I would consider paying someone to help me work on it, although I'm not able to spend a fortune on it.

All input appreciated.

Thanks

Alex

 

[BenzBoy]

If the problem didn't go away after you changed the carb for anther one I'd be looking at something else. Is the coil new? Could be breaking down if it's an old one.
Do you have a transparent inline fuel filter that you can check to see that fuel is reaching the carb when this happens? It could be that the pickup pipe in the tank gets clogged after a while. Or the tank's breathers blocked causing a vacuum and stopping fuel supply... just throwing ideas out there really.

[secondchance]

Hi, thanks for your reply!

The coil isn't new, its the one that was removed from the donor car. Will have to try to find a replacement to test.

And no, theres no inline filter fitted. I will look into seeing if i can fit one. The fuel reaches the carb, but it feels like it cuts out when theres no input from the throttle pedal. You can adjust it so its ok, but after a drive its back to square one. I'm very confused and disheartened by it.

Alex

[Smiler]

Sorry to hear your pain, fellow mk3 owner. It must be very frustrating and down-heartening as you say.

Am I correct in understanding that it only occurs once the engine has warmed up?
I'm wondering if heat-soak is effecting something.
Does it restart easily when it stalls?
What condition is the rest of the ignition system in? (plugs, leads, cap, rotor arm)

In other news (blatant plug), you may find my website of interest. Click on the link in my sig.

Smiler.

[secondchance]

Hi, there are other mk3 escort owners?! Haha!

Yes, very disheartening. Long story short, I've had the car 8 years, it's been in the family for 22. I've only ever wanted this car and no matter what I do, it doesn't go right. Nothing, nothing has ever been straightforward with it, but I persist! Although it's getting harder to justify my time and cash when I can honestly say I've never had chance to enjoy it.

It does only seem to be once it's been driving for a bit, but I have noticed no pattern as to when it occurs with regards to driving time, engine temperature etc... It just start doing it. Usually at the conclusion of a test drive where it's behaved itself until that point.

I'm not sure what heat soak is, I'm not terribly technically minded with this kind of thing, I know some but not as much as I should. The ignition system is all new when the engine was swapped. Restarts straight away.

I can relate my problems to those of the OP in this (quite old) thread......

retrorides.proboards.com/thread/141040/weber-carb-idle

I can relate to the way this OP refers to 'catching' the car on throttle before it stalls. I can also do this.

I think this carb, the DFTM may be cack and perhaps I should replace with a more well catered for model....

I'll check out your website when I can! No sigs on my phone!

Alex

[Smiler]

Ah yes, the photos aren't showing on the front page for some reason.

Heat soak in this case is when everything under the bonnet has come up to full working temperature and is heated all the way through.

If the engine was troublesome to restart I would suggest fuel evaporation. But as it starts easily I guess not. There is an electrical solenoid fitted to many Ford fitment carbs of that generation that on killing the ignition (and so power to it) closes of the idle passage within the carb. Maybe this is getting weak.

[secondchance]

Solenoid? Would that be the small cylindrical plug type thing that goes into the back of the carb, bulkhead side? With the wire coming off it?

Will have to investigate. Searching on google indicates a fair few people complaining of similar problems with thus carb, no definitive answers out there unfortunately!! Local experts, feel free to offer your services, or give me a lesson if you want..!!

Alex

[Kieran]

That will be the anti dieseling valve, designed to stop the car running on when switched off.

It's a small plunger that blocks the idle circuit.

Sounds like maybe you are losing power to this solenoid.

Try making a temporary wire direct from the battery or a known ignition live.

You should hear it click when activated.

[steveo3002]

the fact it starts fine with no choke and then needs half a choke to stay running when hot says to me wrong carb or big set up problems

double check for airleaks too

if pulling the choke out makes it run okay ish , then that ough to rule out the ign side of things as its clearly still working

[secondchance]

Off topic, but Smiler I've just realized who you are...! I spent many hours going through your website as a younger me- teenager at the time when I first got my hands on the escort!

I could probably bore you for hours asking questions about zetec conversions, but I'll save that for another day!

Glad to have made your acquaintance!

Alex

[steveo3002]

how about when its stalling , raise the idle speed so it runs then get it on a gas tester and see whats going on , or fiddle with with the mixture and see if it will run

whats the fuel pump set up on it , too little /much pressure ?

[secondchance]

This seems like such a minefield, I don't know if I'll need to take it to someone, there's so many bits and pieces I'm hearing names of and don't know what they are....

When we changed the timing belt and ignition parts, it was timed up as well. I would hope the ignition system is ok, but the carb appears to function correctly also, until it starts playing up.

I doubt I'll have much like finding an affordable carb specialist where I am these days...

Alex

[secondchance]

Fiddling with the mixture was the last thing I did last night, wound it all the way up so the idle was nice, drive in for a few blocks, then same thing happened again. Not really much more adjustment in the mix now.

Planned to look at it today, but I'm really not feeling it now

Alex

[steveo3002]

youve checked the ign timing with a strobe light right?

yeah good luck finding a garage that fixes carbs , they'l be looking where to plug it in , more hope finding a local forum member that knows a bit

[chrism1]

Sept 12, 2015 8:56:58 GMT Kieran said:

That will be the anti dieseling valve, designed to stop the car running on when switched off.

It's a small plunger that blocks the idle circuit.

Sounds like maybe you are losing power to this solenoid.

Try making a temporary wire direct from the battery or a known ignition live.

You should hear it click when activated.

This.. The plunger gunges up and eventualy stops working. This then restricts the fuel flow to the carb on idle. (its a basic ISCV). Undo it (10mm nut) and give it a clean but there still available to buy new.

[secondchance]

Sept 12, 2015 9:16:16 GMT steveo3002 said:

youve checked the ign timing with a strobe light right?

Yeah, might give it another go, just to make sure nothing's changed.

Might need a closer look at the carb to identify all the different parts of it. Will need a later Haynes manual as mine only goes to '85, whereas the engine and carb are now '87.

[secondchance]

These are the only pics I have if the carb to hand, if anyone would be kind enough to annotate, I'd be very grateful!!





Alex

[chrism1]

towards the back of the carb, either by the throttle cable or on the back itself, you should see a thin black wire leading to a plug. This is the valve (iscv), if its disconnected it fits onto a little pin, if its connected, undo it and clean it out.

[BenzBoy]

Sept 12, 2015 9:13:52 GMT secondchance said:

This seems like such a minefield, I don't know if I'll need to take it to someone, there's so many bits and pieces I'm hearing names of and don't know what they are....

Don't give up on it! These cars are pretty simple, and you'll gain so much knowledge by persevering, and so much satisfaction when you do finally solve the problem! (And you will solve it) I know these sorts of faults are frustrating as hell when all you want to do is drive it.

There are tons of knowledgeable people on Retro Rides who will help you.

[nomad]

It starts & runs so I'd say cambelt & ignition timing are right (or very close) so the problem must be fuel or ignition.

Fuel?
Fit a glass filter so you can check fuel is flowing and to trap any dirt from the tank.
Check if the glass filter has fuel in when the engine stops.


Ignition?
Carry a spare sparkplug in the car. practice unplugging 1 pluglead, fit to the spare sparkplug, rest it on a bit of bare metal (engine?) and turn the motor on the starter - you should get a big spark.
do same test when engine stops - do you get a spark? ok or weak?

Hope you get it sdorted, I had a 60s Ford that would never restart when hot. It started & ran 100% fine the rest of the time