VOSA current rules on stretched tyres

[MK2VR6]

I'm sticking my neck out and daring to mention the s word on here again. Before replying, I'm not after anyone's opinion on what they think of stretched tyres. Thought I'd better mention that before I get started.
Here's the issue: Following research a few months back, we've now established that stretched tyres do not affect MOT and are not detailed in the wording.
Here's my issue... Bear in mind I've run mine on my car for over three years without a sniff of an issue. It's a well looked after car with recent tyres and only tends to get driven some evenings and some weekends (it's not my daily). I've never had an issue with them, the rims are in good condition and they sealed onto the rim without fuss when fitted.
As I was waiting to exit a well known DIY store car park earlier, an officer stuck his head in through my open window. He informed me that if he hasn't been dealing with other issues on site at the time, he'd have been giving me lots of points and a fine for my "illegally fitted tyres, which don't sit properly on the rim." He also quoted a traffic act number which I should have made a mental note of, but unfortunately forgot.
I've since fired up my internet research machinery to see if I can find the number he would have quoted, but to no avail. There seems to be some mention of fitment and I'd also heard, through this site I believe, that police are, "clamping right down on stretched tyres." That's the best I can find. I also read a quote from someone from five years ago, that VOSA don't have an issue with stretched tyres. I also read that someone had been told he'd get three points per corner for his stretched tyres, therefore losing his license in one foul swoop. I even read that in other European countries, car tests are much more strict, yet stretched tyres pass with no issues.
Now obviously things change and rules get tightened, generally speaking. Does anyone know VOSAs current stance on them? I'm (begrudgingly) happy to hold my hands up and get mine changed if VOSA would condemn them, but if they don't, I don't think the traffic officer would be able to apply the points he quoted.
Remember, I'm not after anyone's opinion on stretched tyres. Thanks in advance for useful contributions. Have a pretty Euro mk1, with a similar tyre setup

[mikeymk]

The only number i can think of would be one for driving a motor vehicle in a dangerous condition, not for the individual tyre itself. As long as it's beaded correctly and of correct pressure, then the tyre is fitted correctly, and the only way it could be interpreted as being in a dangerous condition is if the sidewall is out of the manufacturer's fitment tolerance - not something that is legislated.

I have my own opinions on the matter, but staying relevant to the topic, i think the copper has his own opinions on the matter and that's what it was all about.

[mjphotography2016]

road traffic act section 40a & construction and use sections 26 & 27 might be worth a read

[1900sr]

Having followed a few threads on Police forums about this, it would appear that it is not cut and dried. However an officer may decide that under section 40A of the RTA the vehicle is dangerous in his opinion if the tyres are fitted to rims wider than recommended by the tyre manufacturer. If you get a ticket and feel said officer is wrong you can of course go to court. It would then be down to CPS to go ahead with the case, and if they do then it would be whether the prosecution could prove the case to the magistrates (most likely) satisfaction. The chances are that most courts will hear that the tyre is outside it's recommended fitment parameters and agree that it's therefore dangerous.

[retrocarsdan]

Oct 10, 2015 15:31:57 GMT 1900sr said:

Having followed a few threads on Police forums about this, it would appear that it is not cut and dried. However an officer may decide that under section 40A of the RTA the vehicle is dangerous in his opinion if the tyres are fitted to rims wider than recommended by the tyre manufacturer. If you get a ticket and feel said officer is wrong you can of course go to court. It would then be down to CPS to go ahead with the case, and if they do then it would be whether the prosecution could prove the case to the magistrates (most likely) satisfaction. The chances are that most courts will hear that the tyre is outside it's recommended fitment parameters and agree that it's therefore dangerous.

I'd be tempted to push it and take it to court if I found myself in that situation. It would neither either a good solicitor, or some smart (and confident enough) to defend themselves. Proving beyond reasonable doubt that they are dangerous would, I presume, be the crux of the argument, and would surely require the police/CPS to produce examples of stretched tyres failing, and/or being the cause of an accident. I've never known a single incident where stretched tyres have been an issue safety wise (although there may well be incidents i'm not aware of). 

For what it's worth we once fitted Continental tyres to a Mk6 Fiesta for a feature - Continental supplied the tyres FOC for the feature, and we asked for them to be a 'bit stretched'. I can't recall the amount of stretch although it wasn't a crazy amount, it was definitely a stretch. Continental had no issue with supplying them. 

[Battles]

Oct 10, 2015 15:45:00 GMT retrocarsdan said:

I'd be tempted to push it and take it to court if I found myself in that situation. It would neither either a good solicitor, or some smart (and confident enough) to defend themselves. Proving beyond reasonable doubt that they are dangerous would, I presume, be the crux of the argument, and would surely require the police/CPS to produce examples of stretched tyres failing, and/or being the cause of an accident.

+1 for this. Proof beyond reasonable doubt is the challenge the CPS/Fiscal's office have to meet and they often have to drop it because they can't go in knowing they can't prove it.

[HoTWire]

Oct 10, 2015 15:45:00 GMT retrocarsdan said:

For what it's worth we once fitted Continental tyres to a Mk6 Fiesta for a feature - Continental supplied the tyres FOC for the feature, and we asked for them to be a 'bit stretched'. I can't recall the amount of stretch although it wasn't a crazy amount, it was definitely a stretch. Continental had no issue with supplying them. 

Last year this was on the Toyo Tire stand at SEMA


SEMA 2014 by Retro Rides, on Flickr


However if CPS goes via the 'recommendations' from the tyre company I think you'd have a difficult time in court. Unless you can get a tyre manufacturer to stick their neck on the line and back up the use of stretched tyres (I'd also be inclined to ask first "how stretched", 195/50 on an 8" wheel is different to 205/45 on a 9" wheel)

[Deleted]

As already said its down to SEC100 (con and use) unsuitable use and SEC40a and what is stated by the car manufacturer.
I know of two tyre related accidents with cars on stretched tyres but don't know if it was the fact the tyres were stretched or it was the condition of the tyre/ wheels that caused the problem but I do know of one where a banded wheel had 'unbanded' but don't know anything about who made or fitted the wheels.

But the most common way for police to take a car off the road is the driver hasn't declared the modification such as wider wheels and stretched tyres.

[stealthstylz]

Manufactures only 'recommend' a tyre will fit a certain width of wheel. Unless there is a law against it the CPS can't use it to prosecute which AFAIK means if its got legal tread depth its fine.

[MK2VR6]

Thanks for all the insight. Still not got any nearer VOSAs stance on it though - anyone? In the meantime, sounds like I should be ok...ish.

[optimusprime]

Oct 10, 2015 15:50:45 GMT Battles said:

Oct 10, 2015 15:45:00 GMT retrocarsdan said:

I'd be tempted to push it and take it to court if I found myself in that situation. It would neither either a good solicitor, or some smart (and confident enough) to defend themselves. Proving beyond reasonable doubt that they are dangerous would, I presume, be the crux of the argument, and would surely require the police/CPS to produce examples of stretched tyres failing, and/or being the cause of an accident.

+1 for this. Proof beyond reasonable doubt is the challenge the CPS/Fiscal's office have to meet and they often have to drop it because they can't go in knowing they can't prove it.

The issue of taking it to court is that you set a precedent. Which is brilliant if you win,as any subsequent court procedings can " refer you to the case of the CROWN versus so and so" where it was found that etc etc etc .......


However it also works the other way if you lose ...... As now the police and the CPS have a court case in their favour, and a good idea of the Specific wording to use!




I have no particular feelings about stretched tyres either way, so i am not for or against either way.
I will only say that in my previous employment,where i had dealings with all sorts of machinery and epuipment,if the 'you know what' hit the fan,the authorities would always 'refer to the manufacturer' so i would assume the courts would get the tyre company in for their opinion.


And i suppose it goes without saying, make sure you tell your insurance!!

[1900sr]

Oct 11, 2015 1:56:37 GMT stealthstylz said:

Manufactures only 'recommend' a tyre will fit a certain width of wheel. Unless there is a law against it the CPS can't use it to prosecute which AFAIK means if its got legal tread depth its fine.

If a case went to court all the prosecution need to do is get the tyre company to say that they don't recommend fitting that size tyre to that size rim, and that there is a chance of tyre failure if they are fitted and there you have your evidence that it's dangerous.

Two examples quoted on one of the old threads on ukpoliceonline are these

Dunlop
"RIM WIDTH
Correct rim width ensures flex at the designed flex point in a tire sidewall for optimum tire performance.
If the rim is too wide, the flex point moves towards the rim area, causing heat buildup in the lower sidewall, which reduces tire life and could result in failure. Either too narrow or too wide of a rim can result in uneven tread/pavement contact pressure causing uneven wear and potentially reduced traction, or increased vulnerability to bead dis-lodgement. "

Toyo
"Serious personal injury or death can result from failure to select the proper tire and rim: Tire MUST match the width and diameter requirements of the rim. When mounting truck type radial tires use only wheels approved for radial tires.

Now these are obviously from US websites, but I'm pretty sure the UK divisions of these (and other) companies would say the same thing.

I think there is a fairly good chance that tyres fitted outside of the manufacturer's recommendations could be found to be dangerous in the eyes of the law. I would say it is up to the car owner whether they want to take that risk, just like the risk of running illegal numberplates, or overly tinted windows. The difference being of course that the penalties may be much higher.

[composimmonite]

IMO the biggest problem is where the tyre is way too small so that there is a gap between the bead and the edge of the rim.

I can understand Police clamping down on those however most people have them fitted properly so it's their choice if their tyres wear out faster etc.
For lovers of stretch tyres this shows what your chosen tyre / wheel combo will look like -
www.tyrestretch.com/
Also Google stretch tyre fails and look at images to see what CAN happen on older tyres. Bead rips away from sidewall !

[insig]

VOSA don't exist anymore, it's now the DVSA. Page 32 here:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/25/pdfs/uksi_20010025_en.pdf

Has the relevant section:

4. Each tyre fitted to the vehicle shall be of a nominal size appropriate to the wheel to which it is fitted.

Edited to add that tyre manufacturers list a range of wheel widths that their tyres are suitable for.

With regard to the MOT test, some tyres may be marked pn the sidewall with the maximum width wheel that they can be fitted to and wheels are usually marked with their width. If that's the case when I'm testing a car, I'll fail it under section 4.1.1f f. a tyre not fitted in compliance with the manufacturers sidewall instruction.

[Deleted]

Oct 12, 2015 19:13:11 GMT insig said:

VOSA don't exist anymore, it's now the DVSA. Page 32 here:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/25/pdfs/uksi_20010025_en.pdf

Has the relevant section:

4. Each tyre fitted to the vehicle shall be of a nominal size appropriate to the wheel to which it is fitted.

Edited to add that tyre manufacturers list a range of wheel widths that their tyres are suitable for.

With regard to the MOT test, some tyres may be marked pn the sidewall with the maximum width wheel that they can be fitted to and wheels are usually marked with their width. If that's the case when I'm testing a car, I'll fail it under section 4.1.1f f. a tyre not fitted in compliance with the manufacturers sidewall instruction.

I've never seen a tyre that has any 'max wheel width markings'and most wheels do not have their width on them so how do you measure the width?

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2015 13:12:22 GMT composimmonite said:

IMO the biggest problem is where the tyre is way too small so that there is a gap between the bead and the edge of the rim.

I can understand Police clamping down on those however most people have them fitted properly so it's their choice if their tyres wear out faster etc.
For lovers of stretch tyres this shows what your chosen tyre / wheel combo will look like -
www.tyrestretch.com/
Also Google stretch tyre fails and look at images to see what CAN happen on older tyres. Bead rips away from sidewall !

That could be an mot fail under 'a tyre incorrectly seated on the wheel rim' and also an offence of using a vehicle in an unsafe condition.

[The Jackeria]

depends on the tyre/manufacturer to be honest, I wouldn't go outside of what they say is best for that particular tyre, according to falken, their azenis tyre is ok on an 8" wide wheel at 205. Falken don't recommend any less than 225 on the same width for an r888.

[ferny]

Oct 12, 2015 22:28:22 GMT @1300dolly said:

Oct 12, 2015 19:13:11 GMT insig said:

VOSA don't exist anymore, it's now the DVSA. Page 32 here:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/25/pdfs/uksi_20010025_en.pdf

Has the relevant section:

4. Each tyre fitted to the vehicle shall be of a nominal size appropriate to the wheel to which it is fitted.

Edited to add that tyre manufacturers list a range of wheel widths that their tyres are suitable for.

With regard to the MOT test, some tyres may be marked pn the sidewall with the maximum width wheel that they can be fitted to and wheels are usually marked with their width. If that's the case when I'm testing a car, I'll fail it under section 4.1.1f f. a tyre not fitted in compliance with the manufacturers sidewall instruction.

I've never seen a tyre that has any 'max wheel width markings'and most wheels do not have their width on them so how do you measure the width?

He probably has a mighty fine selection of different length carrots and offers them up to the wheel to check its width. Obviously, they'll shrink with time and so require weekly calibration and checking against something which is of constant known length. A frozen sausage or the like.

[nas80]

I have been to court after contesting a "dangerous parts fitted to vehicle, namely "euro look" tyres".

During the stop thw officer had a chart which showed European tyre to rim width nominal sizes.

My wheels were too wide for the tyre according to the officer’s chart.

I managed to find that in a dunlop brochure they allow a 195/40/16 on an 8"
215/35/16 on a 9" (i had dunlop tyres fitted as i don't do budget tyres)

This is what saved me.

Some of you scene kids run even more stretch, you wont get away with it anymore. Sorry.

[composimmonite]

Oct 13, 2015 7:20:22 GMT nas80 said:

During the stop thw officer had a chart which showed European tyre to rim width nominal sizes.

My wheels were too wide for the tyre according to the officer’s chart.

Interesting that Police now have thought it necessary to issue a chart, although flawed, stating the reason to stop / charge somebody for stretch tyres.