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Oct 30, 2015 14:50:43 GMT
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you also have to consider that pagid is now essentially an ECP 'own brand', as they own the sole UK distribution rights to pagid products, so you cant actually buy them anywhere else. Pagid, Mintex and TRW all come out of the same TMD friction factory. I rate all 3 as pretty good. TRW tends to be most pricey. This came up in a thread in a motor trade FB group recently, the concern was that where ECP are the only customer for a certain brand they may be able to dictate the specification based on price rather than longevity or whatever. Some of the guys posting work for small chains who's management specify certain brands, like Pagid for pads or certain filters unless the customer specifies differently, because of long term deals they've done with ECP or another big motor factor and it'll maybe take years of their punters coming back to moan about stuff and feeding quality issues back to the supplier before the situation improves. Or it could be the usual FB conspiracy nonsense...
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Last Edit: Oct 30, 2015 14:52:23 GMT by Battles
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Oct 30, 2015 18:03:47 GMT
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Any reviews on Eicher pads, before I fit them to the 205.
Actually ignore that, as I see their made by TMD like the Pagid and TRW pads.
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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TMD making them does not really make things that much easier IMHO. My dad used to work in the quality industry where they would look for discrepancies. He did say that a well known OE manufacturer beginning with L (not Lucas) admitted to selling less better quality stuff to different chains, with certain stuff going to new cars only (it has to last the warranty period basically), other stuff going to 'OE' brands (be it a visual defect) and others going further down the line (be it the tolerance being a little off or a question mark on materials (of course, not terrible enough to never be sold but I have had my share of new stuff going awry). OTOH this is handy for picking things up cheap . I know VW and Porsche give a 2 year warranty on their parts bar consumables. I don't see ECP doing that or GSF. I have once had drop links on my old Mondeo. One Lemforder and the other genuine although it did have the aforementioned brand. 130k later (that car is now on 310k) I have yet to touch the genuine part again. It could be coincidence but I have changed pattern drop links a couple of times after replacing them on many cars. Yes I could have almost bought 2 for what 1 cost but I struggle enough to fix one car due a lack of time let alone 2 or 3. Anyway, that's my 2p on the matter.
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2015 0:54:49 GMT by ChasR
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Oct 31, 2015 10:22:00 GMT
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Any reviews on Eicher pads, before I fit them to the 205. Actually ignore that, as I see their made by TMD like the Pagid and TRW pads. If you're gonna buy Eicher you may as well save your pennies and get some cheap factor ones. They'll be the same quality. Eicher may be made by TMD but are nowhere near the standard of Pagid. Pagids cost me £11.28 all in for my 205. Eicher are £8.28 totally worth the 3 quid upgrade.
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Oct 31, 2015 10:51:53 GMT
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I use Apexi after i got a set of discs and pads in a hurry to test a car. They don't squeal or warp and feel nice and positive. Used on a primera, and Mazda 6
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Oct 31, 2015 14:41:09 GMT
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I guess this is subjectivity and what people are used to . On the BMW the Apec pads were OK, although I did have the large brakes on that car being the E36 323i. On my 106 GTi however they were horrific and out of town required a prayer to be said before braking. Considering they were the same size of brakes as what was on my 205 GTI the 106 had a firm pedal and did stop you and pass MOT tests but they felt scary when the car was pushed. The 205 fell far safer in comparison on Mintex M1144s. As for the Clio I remember lending my mum the car once and her saying the brakes were terrible when coming to a halt on the motorway. The Bosch pads on there are a revelation in comparsion. I was going to upgrade the pads to M1144s or Pagid RS Blue pads (different to the ECP offerings and also ££££££) but I am glad I simply went with a good stock pad. I know for one I would probably not try Apec or EBC again. What did Einstein say again? IME people are all too quick to say 'x car brakes are rubbish' and are often using parts of the lowest common demoninator. My Stag was no different here ; it took me a while to find a brand of pad I could trust, and even specialists were surprised how good my 'poor' brakes were. Saying that, the previous owner drove the car with the worst set of brakes I have had the pleasure of driving with on a car (seized rear cylinder with leaking servo and blocked brake pipe). Do Apexi even make brake pads? Anyway, I'll get away before the nuns and kittens brigade put me back in my box .
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2015 14:42:24 GMT by ChasR
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Oct 31, 2015 17:46:42 GMT
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I've had good results from Pagid discs and pads (from ECP) on my A6. They've lasted very well and performance has been fine right through their working life. They're getting close to done now and I'll happily buy the same again.
Previously I'd had two sets of Delphi (TRW?) discs and pads in quick succession, which both suffered badly from pad material transfer giving horrendous judder.
The OEM VAG parts are very good quality (esp the discs) and there was a time when the prices were reasonably competitive too. Not any more though.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Oct 31, 2015 18:06:16 GMT
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My tuppence worth - i would always go for a good/premium brand , after all who really really knows who makes what under what name etc ?
I used to by cheap brake parts for my first car from a local car parts place and i had to replace them 3 times in a year , the friction material coming straight off the brake shoes .
I did see a nasty programme years ago about fake parts being made in places like Turkey and places like that , same branded boxes etc so i always buy from somewhere reputable .
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Re. the comment above about cheap parts in branded boxes, if I remember right ECP were named in a similar investigation where a formerly reputable brand is bought out, parts are then manufactured in a factory which doesn't meet the same quality and then they are sold in boxes bearing the original brand. So you think you're buying quality stuff but it's really just cheap rubbish in a branded box.
So technically they're not actually fake but they certainly aren't the quality you associate with the brand you think you're buying.
I'm pretty sure Pagid was one of the brands mentioned in the report. So with regard to the original question, yes - you get what you pay for.
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I only fit padgid pads and disks now as I've no come backs or problems with them The recon callipers are crumpet tho and not worth the hassle
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Last Edit: Nov 3, 2015 20:23:32 GMT by bigal1978
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DO NOT FIT BRAKEWORLD they are absolute garbage. I know I sold them for long enough at a previous place of work. Totally agree with this, as I bought some Brakeworld pads from a local motor factor, and they looked like someone had compacted newspaper together and put it on a thin metal backing.
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Re. the comment above about cheap parts in branded boxes, if I remember right ECP were named in a similar investigation where a formerly reputable brand is bought out, parts are then manufactured in a factory which doesn't meet the same quality and then they are sold in boxes bearing the original brand. So you think you're buying quality stuff but it's really just cheap rubbish in a branded box. So technically they're not actually fake but they certainly aren't the quality you associate with the brand you think you're buying. I'm pretty sure Pagid was one of the brands mentioned in the report. So with regard to the original question, yes - you get what you pay for. Lemforder may have been the other brand. I know one Alfa specialists thought this. Given how long the upper arm lasted on my Alfa I'd say he was right.
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Maybe worth fitting genuine parts as well , i know you can get discount Ford parts online so you maybe able to for others .
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i must be the only person who doesnt rate pagid then. the quality has noticably dropped over the last few years, and the 280mm conversion i did on our lupo has warped the discs within 3000 miles. the pads seem no different t any other cheap brand, TRW, etc. you also have to consider that pagid is now essentially an ECP 'own brand', as they own the sole UK distribution rights to pagid products, so you cant actually buy them anywhere else.IMHO brembo from GSF are better and around the same price. I don't rate them I've removed more pagid pads for noise than anything else I've ever fitted and the discs don't last very long before they are warped They do another brand called eicher and they are cheaper than pagid but seem to be more reliable I'm sorry but this is simply untrue. There are many other suppliers of Pagid discs and pads.. www.brakes-pads-discs.co.uk and www.racepads.co.uk are two that spring to mind Also, the range of pads produced by Pagid is large and you need to do some research to ensure you fit the most appropriate pad for your requirements. The 'S' range are fast road and the 'RS' range are a fast road/track compromise which will stop better but produce more noise and higher wear rate on the discs for example. I have yet to find a better all round pad than the RS29 for my application. So to say 'I don't rate Pagids' is a bit of a sweeping statement.
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Well I don't rate Pagids because I don't rate Pagids, cheep rubbish I always use EBC however I would never change a set of discs or pads simply because the squealed...
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IMHO brembo from GSF are better and around the same price. Seconded, Had some appalling stuff from ECP. Won't go there anymore.
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bazzateer
Posted a lot
Imping along sans Vogue
Posts: 3,653
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IMHO brembo from GSF are better and around the same price. Seconded, Had some appalling stuff from ECP. Won't go there anymore. Thrasher - have you checked out my reply to your garage wanted thread?
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1968 Singer Chamois Sport 1972 Sunbeam Imp Sport 1976 Datsun 260Z 2+2 1998 Peugeot Boxer Pilote motorhome 2003 Rover 75 1.8 Club SE (daily) 2006 MG ZT 190+ (another daily) 2007 BMW 530d Touring M Sport (tow car)
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Well I don't rate Pagids because I don't rate Pagids, cheep rubbish I always use EBC however I would never change a set of discs or pads simply because the squealed... As I said in my previous post, Pagid make a wide range of pads from ok to excellent. I can only presume you have either only tried their bottom of the range 'S' pads or tried their track pads expecting road pad refinement/cold performance. If you think my preferred pads (RS29) are 'cheep' (sic) at in excess of £250 for a set of fronts only in my required fitment, then you are considerably wealthier than me. EBC pads? I was part of a development test they did where they gave free pads to several people in exchange for feedback on how they performed on track. My feedback was along the lines of; Greenstuff - borderline dangerous Redstuff. ditto Redstuff ceramic - OK for about three laps Yellowstuff - OK for short sessions I ended up giving away about ten sets because they were not as good as Mintex 1144 or Ferodo DS2500 never mind Pagid RS 4-2 or RS29, so you'll forgive me if I have a smile at your assertion that EBC make better brake pads than Pagid. I'll be sure to pass on your feedback to my friends who run race teams though...
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My experiences are limited, not keeping cars long enough or paying much attention but ive found delphi pads seem to create a fair bit of dust,(subaru) (ecp) pagid discs and pads ok but tend to fade when being pushed (puma) EBC Blackstuff? seemed good for general road use worked well under hard braking (merc) Drivetec? seem to lose there bite/feel eicher ive got a set to fit as they where cheap and are only a temp replacement until i replace the discs.(not expecting much tbh)
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Well I don't rate Pagids because I don't rate Pagids, cheep rubbish I always use EBC however I would never change a set of discs or pads simply because the squealed... As I said in my previous post, Pagid make a wide range of pads from ok to excellent. I can only presume you have either only tried their bottom of the range 'S' pads or tried their track pads expecting road pad refinement/cold performance. If you think my preferred pads (RS29) are 'cheep' (sic) at in excess of £250 for a set of fronts only in my required fitment, then you are considerably wealthier than me. EBC pads? I was part of a development test they did where they gave free pads to several people in exchange for feedback on how they performed on track. My feedback was along the lines of; Greenstuff - borderline dangerous Redstuff. ditto Redstuff ceramic - OK for about three laps Yellowstuff - OK for short sessions I ended up giving away about ten sets because they were not as good as Mintex 1144 or Ferodo DS2500 never mind Pagid RS 4-2 or RS29, so you'll forgive me if I have a smile at your assertion that EBC make better brake pads than Pagid. I'll be sure to pass on your feedback to my friends who run race teams though... I have no interest in your previous post nor your outstanding knowledge on brake pads ( yawn ).... Nor am I interested in you £250 a set race car pads, I'm talking about reel time day in day out snow rain sun driving which I presumed the OP was talking about..( and don't presume what I am thinking..) Oh and I have no idea what the rest of your reply was about as I fell asleep I like EBC and that's it.. Pagid = German, EBC = 100% English.
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