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I'll start by saying sorry as it's modern content. I may be a little over excited at what I've just read but I think there are some here who may also like the idea behind them.
I like scooters and have for a long while, the smell of the two stroke, the gears, the nostalgia and style, there is almost nothing like a proper classic, and I'm sure everyone on here knows what I'm talking about in relation to cars.
We all ponder why car manufacturers don't make 'em like they used too. I think now more than ever there is a company so close to getting the formula right.
That company is called Scomadi who last year started selling twist and go air cooled scooters which look not far from an original Lambretta bar indicators and width. I know they're made in the east somewhere and shipped here but I can look past that when they look like this... compared with a proper lambretta.
 
They are old news now, what I'm actually here to report is that they are currently developing a "proper scooter" Gears - check Classic styling - check Questionable reliability - check (may well be reliable but who knows) [/p] According to speculation these should be quicker than the current 300cc Vespa GTS.
I can't help but think this is going to cause waves across the scooter market much like the 50cc and 125cc already have. I think its a brilliant idea and hope this causes other brands to make geared scoots again.
Much better than what lambretta themselves are offering. Now we just need some crazy car manufacturers to try something similar.
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Realistically, I think it's a step back technology wise but it gives you that connection to the road, to the experience back that was previously lost.
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So, are you talking about this? Based on the photo and video, this looks like a pressed-steel scooter body wrapped around a generic Chinese 4-stroke single-cylinder bike with 300cc engine and manual gears. The prototype seems to have a carburettor, but they claim the production bike will be EFI. I would suspect the mechanicals will be very similar to one of these:  There are some very good Chinese-made motorcycles these days, and various successful importers selling them with their own branding. That's fine, as long as you understand what you're getting. If you would be just as happy with a Zongshen or Lifan sticker on your bike instead of Scomadi, then you can appreciate it for what it is. I'm not a 'scooterist', so perhaps you could help me understand. The advantage that modern scooters have over bikes is a large sealed/locked luggage area, and automatic gears for ease of riding in traffic, both of which are lost with this design. Why not just ride a Honda CB400 or something like that? It's still retro and practical, cheaper to buy and better service support, the suspension and large wheels will handle a lot better and it's probably not much heavier than this thing. |
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technically yes, but also technically no, the 300cc was to be powered using the Vespa gts engine supplied directly by Piaggio themselves right up until Piaggio pulled that plug since they would have been supplying their direct competition. These have also lost none of the storage capacity that the original scooters had, all you got and still get is the cubby box in front of your knees. Racks were where your luggage went. Its not about re-inventing the wheel, its about modernising an iconic design. I think you're comparing this to modern mopeds a little too closely haha  I don't think a cb400 is comparable since that's a motorbike, not a scooter. Much like comparing a mini to an mr2. Similar in a sense that they both have 4 wheels, an engine and some seats, completely different otherwise. These are definitely aimed at people who want to reminisce classic scooters and go to rallies on something newer but still the same. There is no advantage over a motorbike, it's just preference. You could say anyone who bought one would be stupid because you can buy a modern moped with all the creature comforts, the reality is, modern minis aren't as cool as the old ones no matter how impractical and small are they, see what I'm getting at? The spec list is top secret at the moment as it was revealed only a month ago. I assume much more development will take place before sale. Its a 250cc 6speed engine |
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In my opinion, you don't get the classic cool-factor unless you have the real deal. Better to buy an original and embrace the full experience. The original machines will hold their value far better, and you don't have to make excuses at the rally about your scooter being a modern reproduction. I don't think the original Lambrettas are actually much more expensive than a new Scomadi, are they?
To put it another way, if someone started offering a Chinese-made copy of a classic Mini, would you buy one? Or, for argument's sake, say it was a Chinese-made 2-door Mk1 Escort, or whatever it is that you would want. I would say that it would never be worth it. By the time you spend new-car money on a cheap reproduction, you could buy a real classic, or at least a less-desirable version of one.
By the way, according to their Facebook, the 300cc model is now cancelled in favour of a 200cc model, which I assume would be twist-and-go?
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Likelihood it is a Chinese engine but that only means parts will be easier to get not harder as they mass produce everything. I'm not saying Chinese stuff is good. I'm saying that overall it is a new bike with all the characteristics of a classic. They started out using Chinese parts to keep production costs low whilst they gained brand awareness, now people know who they are they can push better quality products.
"The Scomadi flagship model will now feature a European 200cc engine, it will be a twin cam, liquid-cooled, 4-valve, 4-stroke and is fuel injected. The engine is claimed to make 19bhp and offers comparable performance to the GTS 250 engine (see dyno printout) but in a lighter package, performance parts are already available"
Seems to me the company is heading in the right direction, especially since its a British company not Chinese, one of the guys running the show also runs PM tuning (if you know scooters you know them)
They're also releasing watercooled 125 and 50cc's soon, imagine a company coming out of nowhere and producing Ford model T's only with modern brakes, engine etc that isn't hot rodded that you can buy off the forecourt at competitive prices.
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In my opinion, you don't get the classic cool-factor unless you have the real deal. Better to buy an original and embrace the full experience. The original machines will hold their value far better, and you don't have to make excuses at the rally about your scooter being a modern reproduction. I don't think the original Lambrettas are actually much more expensive than a new Scomadi, are they? To put it another way, if someone started offering a Chinese-made copy of a classic Mini, would you buy one? Or, for argument's sake, say it was a Chinese-made 2-door Mk1 Escort, or whatever it is that you would want. I would say that it would never be worth it. By the time you spend new-car money on a cheap reproduction, you could buy a real classic, or at least a less-desirable version of one. I see where you're coming from, but these aren't supposed to take the place of the classics, they're to be used as dailies whilst the classic is being looked after in a shed, I can't for one second think they'll hold their value but what new vehicle does? These are to appeal to the young guns who don't want to have to fettle with it or baby it because its a classic. When was the last time you had to defend your choice of vehicle at a show? You're at the wrong show if you do. Look at it this way, the original mods bought vespas and lambrettas instead of the motorbikes available at the time why? Because of the style. What they look like. What does this bike do a damned good job of? Looking like a lambretta. Also yes I've covered the 300cc bit above, the geared bike I mention is a completely new 250cc bike not yet well documented. "What makes Scomadi so appealing is that, unlike people who sit on the Vespa side of the classic scooter fence, Lambretta fans can’t buy a modern representation of their favourite machine" "it’s the scooter equivalent of a new Triumph Bonneville. All the style of the original but without the accompanying dirty hands and oil leak" quotes taken from bennets. Not to mention its back to basics motoring, something I thought people who like classics would appreciate. |
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In my eyes you can't get much more faithful to the original as this without breaching copyrights or having all the problems, if a company released an escort mk1 with modern material panels, upto date brake setup and a new engine I'm sure no matter whether it was Chinese or not, they would sell like hot cakes. Why? Because they look like escort mk1s and that's all that matters really. I see Scomadi's as a pre-built kit car company, how many real cobras are there our there? If you didn't have to build one and could go straight to a dealership and buy one, you just would wouldn't you. I cant find a decent link to this episode of topgear but it is exactly what scomadi is all about. With regards to price yes they arent much cheaper but good for what you get, go find me an as new lambretta gp125 with composite panels, dual disc brakes, similar power output, digital dash that isnt imported from india for a similar price that you could ride everyday. 1960's italian build quality wasnt exactly great either. Remember your £600 apple igalaxy 6s was made in china, so don't necessarily slate them just yet |
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Anyway back to original post, a NEW geared, faithfully styled, british designed scooter is in development by some scooter masters, exciting stuff  So, you might ask...so what makes this different than a AJS Modena, Neco Abruzzi or WK Bellisima or any of the other Chinese scooters.... Answer: A lot - while the others are also Chinese-built and hark to classic designs - that's where the similarity stops. Case-in-point: Piaggio makes the Zip in China including the engine, yet the Zip is much better quality-wise than many Chinese-imports. That's because Piaggio oversees the construction and has placed quality controls in it's place. Same here. Scomadi, as many of you know is a product of over ten years of development of PM Tuning and Lambretta/Scooter Innovations, Frank and Paul here in the UK. They have a vested interest in the brand and they are a small outfit. They know the success of the brand relies on it. Until recently, if you wanted a Scomadi, it would be purpose-built and cost nearly £10k. To bring it to a wider audience and develop the business, they decided to produce it in China with the 50/125 models using Chinese powerplants. They didn't just choose any Chinese powerplant willy-nilly. They chose the best performing 50 and 125s China has to offer (apparently the same 50cc Peugeot uses in it's V-Clic - 134QMB and the 9.4hp Longila version of the 125 - quickest and best made version of the 152QMI) At the end of the day, it's reliable as it could be. Would I preferred they were Italian Piaggio engines? Of course, but then it wouldn't be possible at that price bracket. |
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MK2VR6
Posted a lot
Mk2 Golf GTi 90 Spec
Posts: 3,328
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Ultimately, the majority of classic scooter buyers want a period scooter, ideally with as many original parts as possible, which they can then make their own mark on. Yes, some will buy another persons restored project, but the machine will still have history, unlike these 'new build' Lambrettas. The whole scene is based on nostalgia and something which is essentially brand new will only appeal to a select few. At least with a modern Vespa, for example, it's relatively cheap, uber reliable, and has reasonable security for when it's hidden out of sight at scooter rallies ;-) My SX150 rocks all it original panels, and engine casing, although it's running an Imola 186, which equates to pretty much double the power of a standard one. The colour is obviously not original, but for me it's the ideal combination of old and new. No unnecessary mirrors for me ;-)  |
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Last Edit: Dec 29, 2015 9:48:36 GMT by MK2VR6
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It's a nice idea, I'm sure they will sell as Bajaj and LML are the same idea and seem to sell well enough Bajaj  LML  If I was to have a modern-vintage I'd be looking at the black Douglas motor cycles 125/250cc Chinese singles. www.theblackdouglas.co.uk  As before I don't know about the reliability of these Chinese engines, but they are getting better all the time, |
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Dec 29, 2015 10:23:16 GMT
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The Chinese can make decent engines ! They have made them for some of the major manufacturers including Honda, BMW etc for years. Problems arise when unscrupulous Chinese companies then decided to make substandard copies and parts.
In my experience some of the aspects China fails with their machines is poor welding quality, poor preparation before painting of metals, substandard formula of plastic products to they become brittle & penny pinching at every point.
If they can address these problems, and improve others, then there might be a place next to Japanese machines when people are choosing a moped, scooter or bike.
I have a Chinese scooter - a 2009 Peugeot v Clic that cost me £25 a couple of years ago ! The plastics have all been binned as every part was broken or damaged in some way. The frame needs derusting and painting. Bascially I bought it as a project to make a Honda Zoomer style machine so aren't moaning too much at the price I paid but when compared to my 1959 Honda CB92 Benly that is in original condition there is no way the Chinese product will last 50 years !
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forde
Part of things
Posts: 377
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Dec 30, 2015 16:26:32 GMT
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Wouldn't interest me, although they are decent enough scooters I'm sure and look ok. Just doesn't have the right vibe, mainly because they're not two stroke.
I hope they do well but the problem I see is - Normal scooter commuter buyer will want something cheaper, these probably cash in on their vintage style. Retro scooter fan will most likely want a real old one.
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'15 Royal Enfield Continental GT
'95 CZ 125 Type 488
'91 Vespa PX125E
'77 Camino, '86 Camino
'82 Puch Maxi S '70 Puch Maxi N
'80 Maxi S "Sport"
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Your average scooterboy won't be interested. It's not a Vespa or a Lambretta and it has an auto lump in it!!'
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omega
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,060
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now these would intrest me as I want to build a custom scooter as I have a idea for some custom muriels that wont fit on my bike.yes iam a biker with a custom Harley and a r1 but I want something just to get to work on and have been thinking of a scooter for ages,but they go for silly money are 2 stroke and have a horrible gear change.so something with plenty of tin work on would get me intrested,
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now these would intrest me as I want to build a custom scooter as I have a idea for some custom muriels that wont fit on my bike.yes iam a biker with a custom Harley and a r1 but I want something just to get to work on and have been thinking of a scooter for ages,but they go for silly money are 2 stroke and have a horrible gear change.so something with plenty of tin work on would get me intrested, Check eBay for LML, m.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=LML&isNewKw=1&isRefine=true&mfs=GOCLK&acimp=0&_trksid=p2056088.m2428.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xlml&sqp=lmlthey have loads on, they're cheap and they do 2t & 4t, personally I'd have a 2t one, who doesn't love the ring-a-ting-ting of a two stroke?!? I also imagine these will be cheaper than the new scooters too, |
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Go for a Vespa ET4. 125cc 4 stroke engine but metal bodywork like the 2 strokes. Accepted it's an auto but electric start to make up for that I've got an R reg I've owned since 12 months old and has only done a couple thousand miles from new - but I've never rode it other than a quick test ride after bypassing imobiliser ! Just realised it's been sitting unused in the garage for 18 years ! Another roundtuit - plan is to paint with Union Jack on front with Cross of St George on glove box and Cross of St Andrew plus Welsh Dragon on the rear covers. |
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forde
Part of things
Posts: 377
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Go for a Vespa ET4. 125cc 4 stroke engine but metal bodywork like the 2 strokes. Accepted it's an auto but electric start to make up for that Et4 is a decent wee bike Px vespas can have electric start |
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'15 Royal Enfield Continental GT
'95 CZ 125 Type 488
'91 Vespa PX125E
'77 Camino, '86 Camino
'82 Puch Maxi S '70 Puch Maxi N
'80 Maxi S "Sport"
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now these would intrest me as I want to build a custom scooter as I have a idea for some custom muriels that wont fit on my bike.yes iam a biker with a custom Harley and a r1 but I want something just to get to work on and have been thinking of a scooter for ages,but they go for silly money are 2 stroke and have a horrible gear change.so something with plenty of tin work on would get me intrested, No offence to you here mate but I think I have just proved my point |
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It's a nice idea, I'm sure they will sell as Bajaj and LML are the same idea and seem to sell well enough LML If I was to have a modern-vintage I'd be looking at the black Douglas motor cycles 125/250cc Chinese singles. www.theblackdouglas.co.uk They are indeed, I'm sure LML is even actually Piaggio, or definitely was back in the 80's it was just badge engineering much like what Skoda ME, VW Ups are today which is why I don't understand why people slate LML or why they are much cheaper. I saw those Black Douglas bikes a while back and suggested one to my brother, he only declined buying one because of how thin the tyres were, they look like a right hoot, though I think the one I saw was red. I quite like the 125 Scomadi's and would buy one myself if I didn't already have a "proper" Vespa near completion. It seems that although "diehard" scooterists may not be interested, the younger generations are showing interest with them selling out and waiting lists quite long, much like people who bought the vespa ETs, at the beginning they aren't accepted as "proper scooters" to start with but they soon garner their own love. The funny thing in my eyes is that MODS in their day were people who wanted to break the mould and be different, trying new things etc, now they're the people who slate anything new that ruins their "scene" which I can understand to a degree but when you go out of your way to deface someone elses property at a rally... pot calling kettle black much with regards to "rockers" but that's a whole different kettle of fish which would eventually lead to the demise of scootering as a whole if no new interest was created. Age old Watercooled vs Aircooled debate. For me, any addition to the scooter scene is a good one. Any bike that will be loved when new will be loved when old. I'm sure Scomadi's even if they don't last 50 years will be one of those that at least stand to be tested. Like some of the old cars and bikes around, too valuable to thrash everywhere. I hope that there are still going to be rally's with people who don't really give a rats a** about what others think of them. Who are happy to put the miles in, have a laugh and then dance like no one is watching. These are the people that the scene needs as original scooterists get too old to ride. With regards to "normal" scooterists not being interested as people often quip, most people buy mp3s and cds not vinyl records regardless of their age, of course the sound of the music (crackly or crisp) is subjective though we know which one has better sales. Check out the Scomadi facebook page and you'll see that actually many of the people who are interested in and probably buying them are people who already have classic scooters, it's just what is available to you at the correct price point in the right style that fits your needs. Yes you could buy a comparable Vespa but it'll cost you a thousand pounds more (new) and will be auto just the same, double the price of the Scomadi and you'll get a new PX, it all depends on what you want. (can't really compare the price of a scomadi to anything other than a new bike since there is no used market for them yet and if you did that the reality is no new car would ever sell since second hand is always cheaper) I may be slightly swayed towards the classic styling new engine thing because my car is of 30 year old design yet has a much newer turbo charged engine fitted, it just makes sense to me. Perhaps I wouldn't want a tata/dacia engine in my car, but there sure are some tata/dacia cars I'd love to be seen in, that's why I love retro rides, there is an undeniable love of every brand, not just the ones with pedigree. If/when new news unfolds on the geared scomadi, I'll post it here. Meanwhile : Chrome and Carbon... ooohh   |
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