Off the beaten Track ......

[Indie]

For those of you who followed the ‘Lifted road cars’ thread it briefly touched on Classic Reliability Trials …. Driving road cars, effectively off road. I briefly did this in my youth (in a Mk2 Escort that I sold for pennies) but all the usual demands on my time put a stop to that. So now I need the collective RR wisdom to help me refine my choice of car. Please.

Shock loads on the suspension and drivetrain mean I need a (once) popular car that I can easily (cheaply) get the bits to fix, but that if I really get back into things I can swap the engine ( the rules say same manufacturer and mount points) for more grunt.

I want to compete in the FWD class, so I am (chiefly) looking at the smallest (very tight tracks are used), upgradeable (bigger engines and wheels from Sport models), popular FWD that Ford once offered – yup you guessed it the all-conquering Ka ………. It has minimal body overhangs, easy spares availability and as they like a bit of rust they are not at all expensive to buy complete.

Am I missing offerings from anyone else ?

Much as I like the MX5, MG etc it needs to be as small as possible, not ruinously expensive and four seats …. I did consider BMW compacts ( a different class, in so many ways) but they seem to be creeping up in value ….

Please can you let me know where I’m going wrong …….. thank you all.

[mylittletony]

My immediate thought was a saxo, or 106 as they're essentially the same. Up to a 1.6 16v as standard and oodles of spares, plus the base ones are throwaway cheap.

Light and not that prone to rust. I think the base ones are pretty reliable too...

[Iain]

Vauxhall Corsa B (probably even C now) are ten a penny in the scrapyard for parts, and have plenty of tuning potential (1.6 16v, 1.8 16v, 2.0 8v, 2.0 16v etc).

[darrenh]

erring along the same lines. if you go to late 80s/ early 90s vehicles (nova, 205, mk2 polo kind of thing) the cars are give away prices, before all the ncap stuff so shells are light, could buy one for the shell, one for donor parts. also, crucially, allot of them are becoming eligible for historic rallying so parts supply, even motorsport derived, are picking up in popularity

[iamgroot]

I thought the Paxo (106/Saxo) would be a good idea once, but they are very soft shelled, I landed one on NSF wheel, broke the bottom balljoint as you might expect, afterwards the car looked alright except for the massive crease across the roof and the fact the doors wouldnt open and close any more. Whoops. Also a big weak point on power steering model Paxo's is the pump/tank/gubbins, precariously mounted low down in the NSF of the car and VERY hard to get hold of one second hand (presumably due the amount that have been damaged by poorly placed kerbs, trees, cars etc. jumping in the way of the poor defenceless young owners)

So from experience I can state that Nova's are a lot stronger than Paxo's, but obviously nova's are pretty pricey now, so if it were me, I think I would be following the same thinking as Iain, a corsa B or maybe even a C.

I can definitely see the benefits of a KA, but with how rotten they get, I would be worried about it breaking its back at an innoportune moment.

Of course if you want a 1.2 3dr Clio, it just so happens I have got one here you could have...

[retroandproud]

My choice would be a K11 Micra. Tough as nails, bigger engines cheap and plentiful ( Primera and Almera) and you can pick up a decent Micra for next to nowt.... Wierdly, the 5 door shell seems to be stronger than 3 doors....

[composimmonite]

I'd say a Ka.

[mikec]

Check out what other people are using: 2nd generation Micras, Peugeot 205s and 1st generation Fiat Pandas are popular and do well.

[ironmighty07]

The old novas used to boss these events so a Corsa B should be good value...but Micra and Ka should be cost effective options though.

[hcanimal]

Anything will work with some development. Gearbox on all fwd cars is going to be a breaking point. A KA with a 2.0 blacktop would be imense?
I've been using a saxo on pcts and some local classic trials and have replaced the gearbox once so far. Quaife(now owned by tranx)do a trials diff that eliminates the biggest problem for about £500

[Dez]

I'd choose a k11 micra over a ka. Ka front suspension is pretty weak, it can barely handle normal road use without chewing through void bushes regularly. Micra is much more robust in this area so better suited to what you have in mind.

[PhoenixCapri]

Do it properly, go RWD and get a reliant scimitar SS1. Small, Light, easy to bolt a very powerful modern motor into (all alloy zetec se or duratec for example) and all the running gear is basically from other common cars. And later ones are galvanised so no rust, and body is plastic. Just need to jack suspension a bit and weld a sump guard on.

Will be selling my galvanised 1600 cvh one soon for around a grand.

[loudandproud205]

Rover 200 has a core following in motorsports plenty cheap enough to buy and keep and the streetwise is already lifted and masses of engines to pick from even the 200bhp T series is a common swap.

Not quite as light as the Saxo or Ka but does feel stronger.

[Indie]

So a quick update – this will eventually turn into a build thread ….. but for now suffice to say that I asked about compact, FWD , lukewarm to hot hatches that the combined thought process of RRides thought suitable for Classic trialling – i.e. driving a road legal car up byways open to all traffic or simply put; un-made road hill climbing and there was some very useful insight, so thank you to those who responded.

From the on-line results there is a very competitive mk1 Golf.
I decided this would be my benchmark and the car I picked would be as close in vital statistics as it could be – a long evening of interrogating Carfolio (other websites are available) laid ahead of me. Luckily for me I was offered this little beauty for a very reasonable sum …. Courtesy of Mike at Strada Autos step forward a leggy, slightly frayed at the edges, but fundamentally sound 206 Gti. A browse through the pile of receipts shows a recent clutch, cam belt and a windscreen - so, so far, so good.
Immediate plans are to get a couple of tyres with tread to go on the front and zip about for a bit to check general serviceability. As the trails 'season' has a break after April for the 'summer' and starts again at the end of September I've got (famous last words) a few months .....
After protecting the underside against hard, sharp objects the car needs to be as high and light as possible but with the weight biased over the driven (ie front) wheels - this is dead handy because there's an engine AND a gearbox sitting there already.
So a general weight loss program it is then.
Ideally I'd find a super poverty spec 3 dr in silver listed as spares or repairs and just swap doors, losing the electric mirrors and windows in the process.

So what about the stats I hear you ask ? well as a snapshot these are the figures for the MK 1 Golf from Carfolio against the same measurement for the 206
Golf : length = 150.2" / width 64.1" and famously weighing just 860kgs
206 : length 150.5" / width 65.9" and a comparatively portly 1025kgs – so apart from being quite a lot lardier the overall dimensions do not seem to be too far out – plus as a bonus I can fit (and treat as std. equipment) any of the wheels from this model range (14" to 17”) to get some easy ground clearance.

And that's it for now but there will be pictures and perhaps even a few reports on how I've got on in my first few events ..... lucky you !

[gazz81]

Audi 80, oh and I'm filming in a VW Sharran!

[pauly22]

ford puma, 1.7 engines are good.

Edit see you bought a 206.

[Midland Performance & Retro]

Hope it does you well.

When you do get round to tyres let me know what size and spec, as per my thread on here, I can get the delivered to anywhere in the country for a price 99% of the time better than any of the online sellers.

Cheers

Mike

[Indie]

Mike,
It all looks promising at the moment - I am (luckily) quite busy at work so for now all that's happened is a bit of a clean and the trial fitting of a steel 14" wheel to check it would clear the front brakes (it does).

The approved tyre list is quite long and what I hope to do is go along to a few of the last events before the summer break and have a look at the tyres that the more successful FWD competitors use but I'll certainly let you know when I'm ready to commit to a set of six ......!

Thanks again.

Chris