Transmission dimensions question

[jpsmit]

Hey there all, I am am back to contemplating taking apart a perfectly good MG Midget to add a 5 speed.

It is a 1500 (1976).

I know that a Ford type 9 is an easy swap BUT here in Canada, type 9's only ever came in Merkur XR4ti's and they were rare then and rarer now. So, I am looking for an alternative.

My easiest option I think would be a removeable bells housing so that I can put the adapter near the gearbox. My current thought is a non-turbo RX-7 1st generation 5 speed as they seem cheap and plentiful. So, first question,

1. Has anyone had any experience with this?

2. Would anyone be willing to measure theirs for me - particularly the size of the actual gearbox and distance from front of gearbox to shift lever. Also, splines on shaft and, does anyone know about clutch diameter?

3. Any other options spring to mind? Samurai? Sidekick? Remember, they must be available in Canada!

Thanks all
Cheers!

[colnerov]

Hi, I can't help with all of it but here is the page from an online catalogue -

www.spagweb.com/v8mini/tech_files/clutch_QH08.pdf#page=36&zoom=auto,-104,832

There's a choice of spline sizes. Clutch diameter will be dictated by the size of the Midget flywheel.

Colin

[skkylinedave]

I'm pretty sure that before the type 9 was cheap and available , say from the mid-90s to earlier they used toyota gearboxes , i presume from celica .I don't think they where that popular or widespread back then probably due to the boxes not being that common and hence expensive . Perhaps you would have better luck with toyota bits over your way .

[skkylinedave]

www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,842491



clubtriumph.eu/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1303239786/


Should be of some help , they reckon a toyota w58 w50 or similar box . The numbers mean nothing to me so could be starlet , supra celica etc or even in a small van or such .

[skkylinedave]

I think that if you do go the toyota route you will have to email every single company around the world to see if they have a dusty un sold bellhousing on the shelf they will let you have cheap . The type 9 could probably done but the box will sting you and from what i have read the ratios are not great without being swapped [ another pain in the backside ]

[dodgerover]

I bet you could buy an adaptor plate for the Toyota box from Aus, those boxes were popular in conversions there.

[skkylinedave]

I did google a company listed on a forum but they no longer listed it . They might still have some or make some though i suppose , although they looked like they catered for the whole package .

[jpsmit]

I am hoping to use the Midget bell housing. This will to my mind be the easiest, not just to connect to the engine but more importantly to clear the sheet metal under the battery tray. I know that the Midget 1500 transmission is adapted from a Marina transmission and I have also poked around the Marina 5 speed conversion sites. So, the real issue is whether there is an actual gearbox that would fit or almost fit the transmission hump.

[jpsmit]

And, please keep the ideas coming!

[joe90]

How about a Mazda MX5 box, I don't know anything about them but it might give you a direction to look.

Bryan

[composimmonite]

You can add a Triumph Spitfire overdrive to the existing gearbox Needs the output shaft on gearbox changing but not rocket science.

[jifflemon]

what about a 6 speed RX8 box. That seems to be the popular swap box for the ford people at the moment.

[jpsmit]

Aug 26, 2016 8:24:53 GMT joe90 said:

How about a Mazda MX5 box, I don't know anything about them but it might give you a direction to look.

Bryan

I have thought about them, very much available and cheap, but, not a detachable bell housing. Good idea though.

[jpsmit]

Aug 26, 2016 10:16:33 GMT composimmonite said:

You can add a Triumph Spitfire overdrive to the existing gearbox Needs the output shaft on gearbox changing but not rocket science.

I know almost nothing about the Spit overdrive except that they seem rarer than a type 9 even.

[jpsmit]

Aug 26, 2016 12:04:36 GMT jifflemon said:

what about a 6 speed RX8 box. That seems to be the popular swap box for the ford people at the moment.

I know nothing of this one, so, thanks, will look!

[scimjim]

the 6 speed RX8 box is the Aisin AZ6 - also used in the miata/MX5 and S15 Silvia (in a different casing) - NOT the Honda S2000 as wiki suggests. The bellhousings are different and form a big part of the casing. The RX8 5 speed ratios may suit you better - and is certainly cheaper over here.

[vitesseefi]

The 1500 Midget uses the Triumph engine as Spitfire and Dolomite. In those it has the BL single rail gearbox with or without overdrive - basically the same box as yours has now. It would presumably be possible to fit an overdrive version instead though this adds lots of bulk at the back so the tunnel might well be too small.

Modern RWD gearboxes with detachable bell housings are depressingly rare. Most of the 5 speeds from longer ago, the Ford T9 and the Toyota T50 in particular, have been rendered rare(ish) and pricey by diminishing numbers. W58 (from the Supra) is too big for your purpose.

Just possibly on your side of the Atlantic the Toyota T50 might still be findable (used in the late 70s/80s RWD Corollas etc) and there are conversion kits available from Dellow and Conversion Components for those albeit at a stiff price.

Beyond that it is a case of taking a look at what is out there, making an informed choice and engineering a solution.
One point in your favour is that the Triumph lump has a flat steel backplate and it might well be possible to create a new one to suit the bell housing bolt pattern of a modern five speed - you "just" have to find one with a similar diameter, starter position etc.

The original 1500 engine ain't so very wonderful either being the stretched offspring of the 1300, itself the stretched offspring of the 1147 which in turn is the stretched offspring of the 948..... So maybe you should just dump the complete engine and box from something else in there. MX5 is one obvious choice but I did see one recently with a Suzuki Swift GTi engine mated to a SJ413 5 speed (they have a completely separate transfer box) and that fitted very nicely.

Nick