Proposed Roadworthiness Testing Consultation.

[steveg]

A link to this just came up on my facebook page sorry if it's already on here somewhere but though it might be of interest.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/roadworthiness-testing-for-vehicles-of-historic-interest

[highvoltage]

Interesting,so basically they want to make 40 yr old cars MOT exempt to fit with the rolling 40 yr tax exemption.
The EU directive actually suggests vehicles over 30 yrs old but that is not the British govt's preferred option.

The Mot to be possibly replaced by a basic ID and roadworthiness check and the introduction of a historic certification process that means modifieds still need an MOT.This may be self certification or an inspection.

This looked the most worrying part

"The Directive also refers to VHIs as being ‘hardly used on public
roads’, and we wish to consider whether we should restrict the
annual mileage for VHIs exempted from testing. Many insurers
include a mileage limit in policies for VHIs as a way of reducing
premiums. "

[composimmonite]

not a problem - if you want to use every day carry on having an annual MOT test. I can see, however, this is going in the direction as the rest of the EU where if you use a historic vehicle every day then no MOT / VED exemption.

[jifflemon]

The lack of MOT terrifies me; I can see the eBay listings of scrap starting "MOT and tax exempt" starting soon..

[Ryannn]

People can't even keep a new car maintained for 3 years before its first MOT, how would they manage with this?

[highvoltage]

Yeah i've had a few conversations along the lines of "did you know your pads are down to the metal?" to get the response of "it passed the MOT X number of months ago".

In fairness most classics and retros are owned by enthusiasts many of whom are mechanically capable (or at least aware) and hopefully most are better looked after than the average daily vehicle. Not always the case though i know.

If it came to a choice of having a car behind me when i'm driving i'd rather have an MOT exempt A35 or something than an aggressively piloted X5 right up my chuff !

[dodgerover]

Not wishing to be a harbinger of doom but I see no mention of any way to avoid a mileage limit nor anyway to pay for road tax for a historic used daily.

[kevfromwales]

Sept 22, 2016 18:56:20 GMT dodgerover said:

Not wishing to be a harbinger of doom but I see no mention of any way to avoid a mileage limit nor anyway to pay for road tax for a historic used daily.

REgister it as plg and pay the tax?

[rattlecan]

Can't see an issue with mileage, virtually every car from that era has cable speedo. Of course I'm not condoning you disconnect if your mileage becomes a little high

[Rich G]

Sept 22, 2016 20:19:23 GMT kevfromwales said:

Sept 22, 2016 18:56:20 GMT dodgerover said:

Not wishing to be a harbinger of doom but I see no mention of any way to avoid a mileage limit nor anyway to pay for road tax for a historic used daily.

REgister it as plg and pay the tax?

Not possible Kev, the DVLA slammed the door on that a long time ago. Historic or BIVA are currently the only options.

[kevfromwales]

Sept 22, 2016 21:40:26 GMT Rich G said:

Sept 22, 2016 20:19:23 GMT kevfromwales said:

REgister it as plg and pay the tax?

Not possible Kev, the DVLA slammed the door on that a long time ago. Historic or BIVA are currently the only options.

Might have crossed wires here, but unless I missed the memo (likely, with me!) I thought I could at any time take for example, my historic reg'd 69 ford f250, and change it back to plg from historic, and just pay for my tax? Is that not the case? I'm happy to have tax exemption, or even mot exemption without restriction, but as soon as any serious restrictions on use come in, I'll just pay the tax and get the use tbh

Cheers kfw

[taurus]

I'm on both sides of it re road tax. I pay for my daily drive and then it's nice to have an exempt vehicle which is used only occasionally. If I choose to use an older vehicle for daily transport it seems fair enough to contribute the same as everyone else.

On the MOT lark most people I know with currently exempt vehicles a) keep them well maintained and b) get them independently checked anyway. Not sure I'd want to see 30 years as the cut off point, there are too many old cars just used on a bangernomics basis that are still around at that age.

Would I still MOT the 1971 Viva - yes, just to know that I've had my work independently inspected.

[stewartwarner]

On the MOT, enthusiasm is not a replacement for competence. Also I don't know any enthusiasts with a proper brake tester.

There is no option to remain plg and pay tax, wishful thinking on your part.

[steveg]

Does anyone know who gets what out of the MOT fee ?
I have never asked and wonder how it works. Is it the garage who gets all of the money or does the department of transport get a cut ?

I normally assume the government only do things due to costs and really don't understand if they are trying to encourage classic car ownership or if they have something else up their sleeve to get older cars off the road.

[kapri]

There's more to come re Historic vehicles, getting a clear definition is just one step .

[froggy]

Each mot slot costs £2.05 and it's all broadband and we supply paper now so the whole cost is going to Dvsa . The old computer system was supplied and maintained by Vosa and they supplied the coloured stationary .
The new proposals will most likely include the vehicles wanting to get tax and mot exemption to be standard unmodified examples to be classed as historic

[highvoltage]

Sept 23, 2016 8:28:31 GMT steveg said:

Does anyone know who gets what out of the MOT fee ?
I have never asked and wonder how it works. Is it the garage who gets all of the money or does the department of transport get a cut ?

I normally assume the government only do things due to costs and really don't understand if they are trying to encourage classic car ownership or if they have something else up their sleeve to get older cars off the road.

DOT or whatever it's called now set a maximum price but not a minimum so garages can discount as much as they like to try and bring people in.It mostly goes to the garage but it's not very profitable on it's own given the investment needed for an MOT bay.Places doing £20 tests are basically relying on failure work to make money.

I don't see the proposals as anti classic,they are neither encouraging ownership or trying to get us off the road imho.A mileage restriction wouldn't be welcome but it rather depends what the restriction is too !

The other thing to bear in mind is the amount of business involved in the classic car world,the number of people employed and the associated tax revenue for the government.
Think of all the parts and accessory retailers,parts remanufacturers,classic car dealers,auction houses,magazine publishers,restoration companies and so on.This is worth billions a year and employs thousands of people.
The government won't want to make owning a classic so unattractive that companies in the sector go out of business and they lose revenue,it's not in their interest to do that.Just my take on it anyway.

[steveg]

Sept 23, 2016 12:30:01 GMT froggy said:

Each mot slot costs £2.05 and it's all broadband and we supply paper now so the whole cost is going to Dvsa . The old computer system was supplied and maintained by Vosa and they supplied the coloured stationary .
The new proposals will most likely include the vehicles wanting to get tax and mot exemption to be standard unmodified examples to be classed as historic

I'm surprised, not really anything in it money wise for the government then. A local garage to me often does half price MOT's and I wondered how they could do it.

Will they follow insurance companies with whats deemed modified, if so it won't affect many people. Might be better to have a modified car to avoid any further restrictions they impose.

[speedy88]

Sept 23, 2016 7:50:57 GMT stewartwarner said:

There is no option to remain plg and pay tax, wishful thinking on your part.

Where does it actually say that though?

[froggy]

Sept 23, 2016 12:57:14 GMT steveg said:

Sept 23, 2016 12:30:01 GMT froggy said:

Each mot slot costs £2.05 and it's all broadband and we supply paper now so the whole cost is going to Dvsa . The old computer system was supplied and maintained by Vosa and they supplied the coloured stationary .
The new proposals will most likely include the vehicles wanting to get tax and mot exemption to be standard unmodified examples to be classed as historic

I'm surprised, not really anything in it money wise for the government then. A local garage to me often does half price MOT's and I wondered how they could do it.

Will they follow insurance companies with whats deemed modified, if so it won't affect many people. Might be better to have a modified car to avoid any further restrictions they impose.

13000 mot stations and now the government goods test centres are closing and Vosa inspectors working at private garages using their equiptment there's plenty of money in it for Dvsa .
£1,000,000 a week in test slots for cars alone