GT4ME
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,729
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Looking for advice/suggestions, interested in a 60's saloon to do local hillclimbs/possible regularity rally. Something like this A40; www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C787313Or possibly an Anglia. If a decent enough car can be purchased for around £3k I'd apreciate advice from experienced hands on further budget to bring the car up to suitable spec. I'd be thinking bigger carb/cam/brakes/wheels etc. I've never had anything like this before so forgive my ignorance, 70's and 80's BMW's have been my thing up to now. Thanks in advance. Here's some nice A40 pics to say thanks for looking.
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Last Edit: Jul 9, 2017 15:24:35 GMT by GT4ME
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I had an A40 (with almost full test) given to me by owners club as a parts donor for my A35 and was shocked at how bad they can rot. I managed to pass on a lot of trim etc to other A40 owners after I'd kept the parts I wanted but not a single body aspect was worth salvaging. Otherwise it was a nice car but I'd be extremely wary about rot especially if intended use is for competition. Accepted rot will be the biggest worry with any 1960's car as good condition versions of any model will demand more than your budget. Budget aside my suggestion would be a Riley 1500.
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,961
Club RR Member Number: 29
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,833
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I know where there's a solid MOT'd A40 that'll be up for sale soon. Quite a nice thing and won't be silly money.
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GT4ME
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,729
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I had an A40 (with almost full test) given to me by owners club as a parts donor for my A35 and was shocked at how bad they can rot. I managed to pass on a lot of trim etc to other A40 owners after I'd kept the parts I wanted but not a single body aspect was worth salvaging. Otherwise it was a nice car but I'd be extremely wary about rot especially if intended use is for competition. Accepted rot will be the biggest worry with any 1960's car as good condition versions of any model will demand more than your budget. Budget aside my suggestion would be a Riley 1500. Thanks for taking the time to respond, I suppose rot will be a major consideration as any of these will be knocking on for 50 years old. I'm not sure about Riley 1500's, another consideration is I want something quite small and light. That does look nice but definately over budget. I wonder, would it cost as much as £7k to get the one I linked to that standard. I know where there's a solid MOT'd A40 that'll be up for sale soon. Quite a nice thing and won't be silly money. I'm thinking for next year really, need to sell an E28 first also to enable this.
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,961
Club RR Member Number: 29
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That does look nice but definately over budget. I wonder, would it cost as much as £7k to get the one I linked to that standard. Don't know but if you add up, suspension, engine, safety equipment, seats, wheels/tyres etc and any restoration work needed may not be far off. If you're competing you'll need to use FIA spec parts.
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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GT4ME
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,729
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That does look nice but definately over budget. I wonder, would it cost as much as £7k to get the one I linked to that standard. Don't know but if you add up, suspension, engine, safety equipment, seats, wheels/tyres etc and any restoration work needed may not be far off. If you're competing you'll need to use FIA spec parts. Thanks Mark, that's really the point of my thread. To get an idea of a realistic cost to get something like the linked A40 up to quick enough spec to be fun and not feel like a slow old thing. I wouldn't be circuit racing at the Goodowod revival or anything like that, just taking part on amateur hillclimbs etc so not sure about the FIA approved bit.
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What about a Minor ? At least you can get any repair panels if needed - something that is virtually impossible for an A40. Austin Morris ADO16 1300 would be competitive and cheapish to modify.
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GT4ME
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,729
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What about a Minor ? At least you can get any repair panels if needed - something that is virtually impossible for an A40. Yes, I do like a 2 door minor. Google tells me an A40 is 800kg and a minor is 775kg, does that sound right?
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Last Edit: Oct 6, 2016 18:09:21 GMT by GT4ME
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The beauty of a Minor is plenty of "tried and tested" upgrades for reasonable cost. I had a Minor to replace my A35 and only negative was rear axle tramp on tight roundabouts if power on. Easily sorted if I hadn't decided to buy an Austin (post Healey model) Sprite. If you stick with A Series engines then 1275 Spridget lump goes straight in after swopping various mounts from the 1098. Bigger engine swops can be difficult as steering rack is behind the rear of the rocker cover but people have successfully fitted the good old Fiat twin cams up to 2.0. Marina pedal box common upgrade from the underfloor Minor master cylinder and gives option of servo assistance. Disc brake upgrades common. Lever arm shocks easily upgraded with higher grade oil and different / adjusted valves.
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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I was going to suggest an ado16 too. Biggest thing to change on them is the hydro suspension which would require a bit of bespoke work but otherwise they are good old a-series. Pretty sure you can get a gooden for 2-3k if you shopped about
I have a moggie that fits the bill. Might consider selling it tbh and it wouldn't be too much above your budget with tuned 1275 and disc brakes on it already.
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Would an early imp/ stiletto be too modern, they can be made to rev out quite well and the overheating/ warped heads stigma can be overcome?
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,563
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What sort of modifications are allowed for what you want to do ? Not sure if you mean speed hill climbs or the trial type ones as that might make a difference. One car I would imagine might be good for both is a Renault 8 but that is a bit far from what you were thinking of.
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what about an early avenger? early 70's and i have a reasonable 1600 for sale, and the 2.2lotus slant 4's bolt it
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Oct 11, 2016 15:32:10 GMT
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Before you buy anything it would be worth getting hold of the rules regs for both Historic rallies Historic Rally Car Register (HRCR) www.hrcr.co.uk/ and hillclimbs (this seems to depend on championship to championship), as can alter and limit what modifications you can use. An engine swap from another manufacturer or somthing more modern is out youd run in the modern catagories (think Vauxhall Xe powered escort / pinto powered starlets etc.) you may be suprised on the age limit for cars being classed as historic ('81 to '85 for Cat 4 rally cars) Have a look what people are currently using, what are easy to get bits for and have competition history. Getting somthing a bit more obscure as far as motorsport goes can and will be painful in finding go faster & stop better bits and knowledge. RWD or FWD? Anyhting A-series powered would be a good shout, lots of tuning goodies and knowledge out there for them. - although A30 / A35's have gone up in price becasue of the Academy race series (£30k for a fully built car fresh from Goodwood revival with a shonky engine, but thats another story regarding engine the series builder and several engines not lasting a race etc) Anyhting ford powered will again have lots of info and tuning but the vehicles themselfs have the Ford Tax attached. Sprites / midgets are a good option, they have most of the bolt on Upgrades you'd want for a minor allready fitted but cabin space is limited.
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Take the Next slot right coming up on the left.
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GT4ME
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,729
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Oct 21, 2016 14:41:55 GMT
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Firstly, apologies I'm just replying to this thread. My iPad refuses to stay logged in to the site and I couldn't remember my password. The beauty of a Minor is plenty of "tried and tested" upgrades for reasonable cost. I had a Minor to replace my A35 and only negative was rear axle tramp on tight roundabouts if power on. Easily sorted if I hadn't decided to buy an Austin (post Healey model) Sprite. If you stick with A Series engines then 1275 Spridget lump goes straight in after swopping various mounts from the 1098. Bigger engine swops can be difficult as steering rack is behind the rear of the rocker cover but people have successfully fitted the good old Fiat twin cams up to 2.0. Marina pedal box common upgrade from the underfloor Minor master cylinder and gives option of servo assistance. Disc brake upgrades common. Lever arm shocks easily upgraded with higher grade oil and different / adjusted valves. I was going to suggest an ado16 too. Biggest thing to change on them is the hydro suspension which would require a bit of bespoke work but otherwise they are good old a-series. Pretty sure you can get a gooden for 2-3k if you shopped about I have a moggie that fits the bill. Might consider selling it tbh and it wouldn't be too much above your budget with tuned 1275 and disc brakes on it already. Apreciate the info, I think a Moggie is out spoke to who I'll be sharing driving with and he doesn't like them. Would an early imp/ stiletto be too modern, they can be made to rev out quite well and the overheating/ warped heads stigma can be overcome? That's a great shout as we both love Imp's however I think they may be well over budget. What sort of modifications are allowed for what you want to do ? Not sure if you mean speed hill climbs or the trial type ones as that might make a difference. One car I would imagine might be good for both is a Renault 8 but that is a bit far from what you were thinking of. I think the main rule is that it's running as per original spec, ie no replacement Vauxhall 16v engine etc. what about an early avenger? early 70's and i have a reasonable 1600 for sale, and the 2.2lotus slant 4's bolt it Apreciate the suggestion but not my kind of thing really. Before you buy anything it would be worth getting hold of the rules regs for both Historic rallies Historic Rally Car Register (HRCR) www.hrcr.co.uk/ and hillclimbs (this seems to depend on championship to championship), as can alter and limit what modifications you can use. An engine swap from another manufacturer or somthing more modern is out youd run in the modern catagories (think Vauxhall Xe powered escort / pinto powered starlets etc.) you may be suprised on the age limit for cars being classed as historic ('81 to '85 for Cat 4 rally cars) Have a look what people are currently using, what are easy to get bits for and have competition history. Getting somthing a bit more obscure as far as motorsport goes can and will be painful in finding go faster & stop better bits and knowledge. RWD or FWD? Anyhting A-series powered would be a good shout, lots of tuning goodies and knowledge out there for them. - although A30 / A35's have gone up in price becasue of the Academy race series (£30k for a fully built car fresh from Goodwood revival with a shonky engine, but thats another story regarding engine the series builder and several engines not lasting a race etc) Anyhting ford powered will again have lots of info and tuning but the vehicles themselfs have the Ford Tax attached. Sprites / midgets are a good option, they have most of the bolt on Upgrades you'd want for a minor allready fitted but cabin space is limited. Good advice there, I do still like the look of an A40 Farina. One of the main aims of this thread was to get a rough idea of budget to get something like a £3k Austin A40 up to fast road/hillclimb spec. If anyone has done this I'd apreciate their input.
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2016 14:45:55 GMT by GT4ME
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Oct 22, 2016 10:04:38 GMT
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The MSA blue book is the reference book you need to read. Available online here by section. The 2017 book will be out soon. Essentially you're concentrating on sections J, K, L and S. Firstly, you need to decide which class you want to run in - Roadgoing, modified or Libre (I've ignored the new standard class for next year as it doesn't include classics) - this (and your increasing wish to be competitive) will be the deciding factor for budget. Then you need to decide which championship you want to run in (you have to be registered to an MSA recognised championship) - a one make club, a location based champ or someone like classic marques. Each will have its own regulations (based around the blue book but may be more stringent) and its own scoring system (power to weight, model based, etc). HTH
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Oct 22, 2016 10:18:30 GMT
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Just to expand on classes - roadgoing is basically as it sounds, a few limitations on mods (which different championship regs may further limit). Modified requires a cage (roll over protection system - ROPS) and Hans. Libre is anything that may have chassis mods, engine change, etc - generally speaking speed and cost increases inline with those classes.
Obviously there's initial costs associated with coveralls, helmet, gloves, etc that meet the relevant regs too.
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Last Edit: Oct 22, 2016 15:55:31 GMT by scimjim
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Oct 23, 2016 23:07:29 GMT
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Oct 24, 2016 19:26:23 GMT
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Another one I'd consider is the Riley/Wolsely 1500 B series engine, basically a posh Morris Minor. Has been a competition car car in the past.
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