Day Van Options Vivaro, Trafic, Primastars & Transits

[BT]

Hello retrorides.

I realise that these do not fall into the criteria as retro and are in fact no where near it despite the oldest being 14 years old now, I think that the retro rides modus operandi can be implemented effectively on them. Turning something which is dull and bland into something that can be incredibly awesome and full of fun.

I have wanted a day van for a few years now, started with a vito which got smashed to bits and then got a T4 which required more work than I was able to provide, this has then made me reasses the situation.

What I want is a day van, something to chill out with and take on adventures. We all know that VW are pretty popular at the moment with the T4 &T5 but what if you don't have the 10 to 30 grand that these things demand but what are the other options?

What I need is something that can do 35/45mpg, can happily handle 600 miles in a weekend, has air conditioning (which these £10,000 T4s don't have) comes factory as a Kombi van or crew cab and is cheap enough to buy and not worry about.

This then brought me to look at the Vauxhall Vivaro, Renault Trafic and the Nissan Primastars which all seem to be the exact same van. I am looking at an earlier 2003 to 2006 van which I have had no experience of.

I had a loaner Trafic, but it was brand new and it was lovely. I also drive a master for work and have put 70k on it, despite it eating it's gearbox and blowing a clutch master cylinder which seems to be limited to the 2012 model it's been pleasant enough and seems to return 30mpg loaded up to its eyeballs.

What are the earlier models like if anyone has any experience with them?

Could they make a pleasant, useable and cheaper alternative to the VW range?

Obviously I don't expect or intend to buy a fully converted van, just a Kombi van will do me for now.

Are there any drastic faults with them? Years that should be avoided? Problems that can be identified on a viewing that may turn in to expensive issues later down the line?

Do these suffer with sticky veins in the turbo that could Pressent overboost issues?

What is the model to go for? I don't want an underpowered barge. We have two at work. Ones a rocket and ones a dead weight.

I suspect that many people would have possibly experienced these vans as work vans as they seem very popular. So any input would be excellent.

As penance for lots of words have some photos.














This one has a S4 engine mid mounted I think.

[crossy10]

I have a new shape 2015 Trafic Sport and I love it. It I s a 1.6 turbo and has 115bhp.

Pretty sure the old ones have either 90bhp or 115bhp out of a 2.0 turbo. I have heard of gearbox problems but don't know much else.

Look good slammed on X5 wheels like your last pic.

[welshpug]

Don't discount the Ford, very close on size and fuel economy.

[BT]

Jan 3, 2017 18:26:03 GMT crossy10 said:

I have a new shape 2015 Trafic Sport and I love it. It I s a 1.6 turbo and has 115bhp.

Pretty sure the old ones have either 90bhp or 115bhp out of a 2.0 turbo. I have heard of gearbox problems but don't know much else.

Look good slammed on X5 wheels like your last pic.

I thought they made a 140/150 sport. Possibly? But again I am pretty clueless. I'll have to ask a chap I know with a sport. Tells me it tugs his mx5 on a trailer to silly speeds.

Yes, and to boot the X5 wheels are the correct vehicle weight rating for the van. Unlike a lot of aftermarket wheels thrown on vans.

[BT]

Jan 3, 2017 18:36:57 GMT welshpug said:

Don't discount the Ford, very close on size and fuel economy.

Thanks for the input.

I have never been a huge ford fan unfortunately, but then again not have I been a fan of Renault, Nissan or Vauxhall. Problem with the transit is the size I could afford seem to suffer catestrophically with rust problems much like the earlier vitos.

However. It can't hurt to look.

[Rob M]

The Vivaro has a deserved reputation for having chocolate gearboxes.
My firm must have run one of the largest Vivaro fleets in the UK, if not Europe,and more than the odd few were being dragged into fleet workshops with dead gearboxes.
I had a work one, brand new, (07 plate ) which was a nice place to be but mothing special.
I ended up doing a swap for a 56 plate Transit because it was more spacious at the back for my work gear.
That's not helped you much, has it...... :/

[BT]

Jan 3, 2017 18:58:59 GMT Rob M said:

The Vivaro has a deserved reputation for having chocolate gearboxes.
My firm must have run one of the largest Vivaro fleets in the UK, if not Europe,and more than the odd few were being dragged into fleet workshops with dead gearboxes.
I had a work one, brand new, (07 plate ) which was a nice place to be but mothing special.
I ended up doing a swap for a 56 plate Transit because it was more spacious at the back for my work gear.
That's not helped you much, has it...... :/

It certainly has helped!

I often wonder if fleet vehicles like these are used with a "who cares attitude" and if personally owned vehicles would go much further. Our fleet vehicles are always in the shop because the people who use them don't care, they aren't picking up the bill and they aren't going to be without a vehicle. I often wonder if they were use privately would they last any longer? However it is a clear fact that these vans have a weak link in the gearbox.

With two mentions of transit in 3 replies perhaps I need to look at them!

[welshpug]

the major rust issues ended when they introduced the MK6, they do still rust but nowhere near as prolific.

what kind of budget do you have? you'll probably be able to get into a mk7 by now (06 on), same shell and most of the basic running gear the same as the earlier vans but a different front panel lights bonnet and dashboard, newer engines.

for a day van/camper you might find the vaux/ren/niss vans a bit short, the medium height ones are rare, where the medium roof transits are more common.


Vivaro is a nice drive, had one as a parcelforce driver years ago and racked up several thousand miles in one, a friend of mine used to be a commercial van dealer's service mechanic, he said the only things to look at specifically are a bit of oil smoke, if the turbo seals start leaking they can fill up the intercooler, which will eventually get sucked into the engine and they'll run away, due to the amount of oil the coolers can build up you'll struggle to stop one if it does go!

clutches flywheels and gearboxes can cause big bills but its hard to tell if they are about to go other than a bit of a chatter on idle.


transits are pretty hardy things, starter motors can cause grief on the fwd variants when the flywheels start going, so if you see one that's had a few starters you'll know it will need a flywheel!!

the rwd 2.4 is quite thirsty, early ones can have fuel pump problems on the 90 and oil leaks from the chain cover so if fuel economy is a priority then a FWD 2.0 or later 2.2 is the one to go for, timing chians on all of them don't tend to cause issues but the tensioners can get weak and cause rattles.

[garthalgar]

My mate has had a primastar for 2 years and has been through 2 gearboxes and has done the head gasket and other relatively major jobs. Gear change is cable and they seize up so changing gear can become an arm wrestle.

For the amount of driving he's done however it has been fairly reliable. Maybe hes had a rubbish one? Oh and his dog slow, but I'm not sure what model it is.

Transits a good bet still. If you aren't that fussed about the size then an Extol or Suzuki carry are right ace fun vans to drive!

[crossy10]

Yeah now you mention it, I'm pretty sure you do get a 140bhp sport. Not sure if you do in earlier models though.

I have a SWB transit I'll be selling soon. 2008 low roof model. Be asking around 3k mark. Only an 85bhp model though

[welshpug]

2.2 puma does map very well, though to get decent gains you'll need to change the injectors as they are smaller if you get a low power version.

[iain42]

Bought my Trafic new in 2004 (SL27dci 100), I don’t do huge mileage (its just coming up to 100K) but I really like it, I’m struggling to justify changing it when its been so good.
When I was looking, I tried the Transporter and Transit aswell, the Trafic was miles nicer to drive (I was coming from an escort van, so very different), the Transit was worse on fuel and I just couldn’t understand why the Transporter had such a premium on the price.
It hasn’t been abused (should perhaps have washed it a bit more often, 5 yearly hasn’t done the paint any favours), it gets a good thrash now and again and is surprisingly good fun on the twisties with a few bags of cement in the back.
The local ish running about I tend to do I get up to 40mpg, on a run its roughly 45
Repairs, apart from servicing (the timing belt is not fun to change) it seems to eat bottom ball joints (I believe they are the same as one of the cars, so maybe not heavy duty enough), I think its probably 4 or 5 each side. Rack ends changed once, 2 pairs of track rod ends, anti roll bar drop links and in the last couple of days the accessory belt idler has started to complain, and that’s all that has gone wrong.
The only thing I noticed on the gearbox (which may have something to do with the failures), if I change gear too soon after starting off I get a crunch (its done it for as long as I can remember), presumably it needs time for the oil to lube everything.

I have been looking at the new ones recently, the 120 and 140 are twin turbo, smaller are single turbo, but all the same engine (so a 120 will remap to (more than) 140)

It does seem that mine wasnt a friday van but it adds some balance to all the doom you read about them in internet-land.

[astranaut]

We had one 4 year old one in 2008 where I did an apprenticeship, in the 6 months I was there it did around 10k and ate 3 gearboxes (not sure if they are all 6 speed, this was). Was fixed, auctioned off and replaced with a mk5 transit

[petetong]

Don't dismiss the Transit.
Mine cost me £500!!


And can look just as good, if not better when suitable modified.

[dikkehemaworst]

Loved my vivaro. Had the turbo diesel for 2 years after my sprinters kept beeing stolen. Loved all the Miles. Great cars. I had nogearbox problems in those 2 year and I thrashed it on a regular basis doing a weekly roundtrip to belgium from amsterdam

[BT]

Jan 3, 2017 19:11:41 GMT welshpug said:

the major rust issues ended when they introduced the MK6, they do still rust but nowhere near as prolific.

what kind of budget do you have? you'll probably be able to get into a mk7 by now (06 on), same shell and most of the basic running gear the same as the earlier vans but a different front panel lights bonnet and dashboard, newer engines.

for a day van/camper you might find the vaux/ren/niss vans a bit short, the medium height ones are rare, where the medium roof transits are more common.


Vivaro is a nice drive, had one as a parcelforce driver years ago and racked up several thousand miles in one, a friend of mine used to be a commercial van dealer's service mechanic, he said the only things to look at specifically are a bit of oil smoke, if the turbo seals start leaking they can fill up the intercooler, which will eventually get sucked into the engine and they'll run away, due to the amount of oil the coolers can build up you'll struggle to stop one if it does go!

clutches flywheels and gearboxes can cause big bills but its hard to tell if they are about to go other than a bit of a chatter on idle.


transits are pretty hardy things, starter motors can cause grief on the fwd variants when the flywheels start going, so if you see one that's had a few starters you'll know it will need a flywheel!!

the rwd 2.4 is quite thirsty, early ones can have fuel pump problems on the 90 and oil leaks from the chain cover so if fuel economy is a priority then a FWD 2.0 or later 2.2 is the one to go for, timing chians on all of them don't tend to cause issues but the tensioners can get weak and cause rattles.

Thanks very much indeed for such a comprehensive reply.

I read your reply earlier and was thinking. I remember my house mate had a 2.0 petrol smiley faces transit, LWB mid top thing which we called "Pamela Vanderson" and we drove the thing absolutely everywhere. We drove it to Croatia, france, Germany, all sorts. Scotland regularly, we put tens of thousands of miles on it and had no real issues. Certainly no rot.

Price wise I currently have 5 cars on the road. This needs to be reduced hence why I need a Trafic sized van, I would need to use the van as a daily driver and because of this, and the uncertainty of liking it and getting the use out of it I do not want to throw big money at the vehicle. Ideally around £1500.

Because of the limited budget I want something that's going to be as much of a "buy and forget" as possible. I couldn't be coping with replacing gear boxes and clutches on a 6 - 12 monthly basis.

There seems to be a few transits out there. Some are petrol which I didn't realise they made in the later shape.

If I was to look at a transit, it would have to be one of the smaller ones, anything larger than a mid top would be too much, where I need to use it as a daily driver it must for under height restrictions and be park able in the stupid small supermarket car parks.

Say I was to buy a transit, cheaper the better, what model would be the one to go for and what would be the one to avoid?

Thanks for the input.

[BT]

Jan 3, 2017 19:19:55 GMT garthalgar said:

My mate has had a primastar for 2 years and has been through 2 gearboxes and has done the head gasket and other relatively major jobs. Gear change is cable and they seize up so changing gear can become an arm wrestle.

For the amount of driving he's done however it has been fairly reliable. Maybe hes had a rubbish one? Oh and his dog slow, but I'm not sure what model it is.

Transits a good bet still. If you aren't that fussed about the size then an Extol or Suzuki carry are right ace fun vans to drive!

This seems to be the general response on these vans. Unfortunately. Major jobs are things I could sure do without.

Unfortunately the Suzuki carry sized vans are just a little too small for me. However some conversions are very cool!

[BT]

Jan 3, 2017 21:31:08 GMT iain42 said:

Bought my Trafic new in 2004 (SL27dci 100), I don’t do huge mileage (its just coming up to 100K) but I really like it, I’m struggling to justify changing it when its been so good.
When I was looking, I tried the Transporter and Transit aswell, the Trafic was miles nicer to drive (I was coming from an escort van, so very different), the Transit was worse on fuel and I just couldn’t understand why the Transporter had such a premium on the price.
It hasn’t been abused (should perhaps have washed it a bit more often, 5 yearly hasn’t done the paint any favours), it gets a good thrash now and again and is surprisingly good fun on the twisties with a few bags of cement in the back.
The local ish running about I tend to do I get up to 40mpg, on a run its roughly 45
Repairs, apart from servicing (the timing belt is not fun to change) it seems to eat bottom ball joints (I believe they are the same as one of the cars, so maybe not heavy duty enough), I think its probably 4 or 5 each side. Rack ends changed once, 2 pairs of track rod ends, anti roll bar drop links and in the last couple of days the accessory belt idler has started to complain, and that’s all that has gone wrong.
The only thing I noticed on the gearbox (which may have something to do with the failures), if I change gear too soon after starting off I get a crunch (its done it for as long as I can remember), presumably it needs time for the oil to lube everything.

I have been looking at the new ones recently, the 120 and 140 are twin turbo, smaller are single turbo, but all the same engine (so a 120 will remap to (more than) 140)

It does seem that mine wasnt a friday van but it adds some balance to all the doom you read about them in internet-land.

Thanks for your reply and it's been nice to see a positive response about these vans. I wonder if you've had a positive experience with your van because it's been your own, rather than an abused company vehicle.

I know a few chaos who have the Trafic, one had a early sport model and was that pleased with it that he has recently bought one of the new Bi-turbo (I think) models. Thinking about it further there is a second chap I know, again had a 2011 van and replaced it recently with a brand new turbo model which he has had 50k trouble free miles in over 12 months.

Unfortunately the models I am looking at are rather high mileage and makes me wonder if high mileage on these vehicles which are known to be problematic could be a bad idea.

Thanks for your help again.

[BT]

Jan 3, 2017 21:38:28 GMT astranaut said:

We had one 4 year old one in 2008 where I did an apprenticeship, in the 6 months I was there it did around 10k and ate 3 gearboxes (not sure if they are all 6 speed, this was). Was fixed, auctioned off and replaced with a mk5 transit

That seems to be a bit of a step backwards in vehicle age, yet seems to have been met with far superior reliability.

In my trade I deal with a lot of very small companies run by few people and I deal with them on a regular basis and have done for years. We often talk about the stupid van that's in the shop again. We all seem to have renult masters or Trafics and we have discovered that the ones that are most prone to failure are the 2012 models. Every firm I deal with that has a 2012 master has had the same problems as me. Last time I was in motor line renult the sales man took me out the back and pointed out 8 vans that were in for the exact fault as mine.

I wonder if the gearbox faults are linked to a certain age or batch? That said our 2010 master has gone in for a new box at the cost of £3800.

[BT]

Jan 3, 2017 21:56:56 GMT petetong said:

Don't dismiss the Transit.
Mine cost me £500!!

You know as soon as transit was mentioned I thought of your van. I like it very much and have followed your build thread closely. I think you've pulled this of very well, and I kind of like the thought of it on a beach inbeteeen a load of same old T4/5s and to boot you have a lot more room!!

Unfortunately, I need to use the van as a daily driver and due to parking and where I live I wouldn't be able to have anything quite as big as yours, which sucks because something that size would open up so many possibilities.

I agree. The transit seems to modify very well!