heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 10:36:57 GMT
|
I've been considering replacing the big granada single-pot callipers on my capri with something a bit more modern, as one of the bleedin' bleed nipples has snapped off and is proving a massive PITA to get out. At the moment they're on a pair of adapter plates, and it runs RS500 vented discs. They'll need to be fitting under 16" wheels.
I've got access to a scrappy at the mo, so can poke about at my leisure, so has anyone got any recommendations on cars to be looking for that'll cough up some big stoppers without having to pay a scene/Brembo kinda tax?
Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 10:40:08 GMT
|
Octavia VRS and anything of that ilk?
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 30, 2017 10:40:27 GMT by fad
|
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 12:51:10 GMT
|
Mk3 mondeo with st170 discs
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 30, 2017 12:51:57 GMT by fordperv
|
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 14:27:13 GMT
|
I used mk3/4 golf ones on the back of the avenger and they fitted ford adapter brackets
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 17:18:40 GMT
|
E38 BMW callipers from any model in the range apart from the 750i as they use the curse word ATE callipers
The rest have factory brembos and can be used with mk1 focus rs disks (325mm)
Wheel fitment becomes an issue tho as 16" will fit but at a squeeze Have same callipers on my cossy and work well
|
|
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 17:35:09 GMT
|
Stunning guys, thanks. I'm off to the scrappy on thurs , so we'll se what I can find
|
|
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 18:00:29 GMT
|
fordperv , are those mondeo jobs very different from the granny callipers I already have? They look suspiciously similar, but with that irritating wind-in business on the pistons. I reckon from what I can see that the piston is a very similar size to the granny ones, so I'm not gaining much there. 300mm disks are a bonus though, I'll have a look to see what ford fitment discs are out there to match. Focus st170 ones look fairly appropriate. retrowrongun , these are going to be banded 16" steelies, so there's a good bit of room in there compared to alloys. I'll measure up before I go , and see if I can wedge them in, as 4-pots appeal. As I'll probably need adapter plates anyway, I can use a slightly smaller disc if need me, but 325 would be good if they'll fit. Apparently 406 coupes have fairly big brembos on too, so that's worth a look. Alternatively, these'll apparently sort the problem out, without having to change anything else!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 20:21:12 GMT
|
fordperv , are those mondeo jobs very different from the granny callipers I already have? They look suspiciously similar, but with that irritating wind-in business on the pistons. I reckon from what I can see that the piston is a very similar size to the granny ones, so I'm not gaining much there. 300mm disks are a bonus though, I'll have a look to see what ford fitment discs are out there to match. Focus st170 ones look fairly appropriate. retrowrongun , these are going to be banded 16" steelies, so there's a good bit of room in there compared to alloys. I'll measure up before I go , and see if I can wedge them in, as 4-pots appeal. As I'll probably need adapter plates anyway, I can use a slightly smaller disc if need me, but 325 would be good if they'll fit. Apparently 406 coupes have fairly big brembos on too, so that's worth a look. Alternatively, these'll apparently sort the problem out, without having to change anything else! The mondeo calipers are of a similar design to the granada/sierra ones, i cant remember the piston size off the top of my head as you say 300mm disk is a bonus, only mondeo rear calipers are wind in the fronts just slide
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 30, 2017 20:28:51 GMT by fordperv
|
|
njw
Part of things
Posts: 226
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 20:44:19 GMT
|
I fitted Mondeo calipers to my old Sierra, apart from the huge difference in braking effort the two big advantages were that they bolted pretty much straight on and I think they only cost me £20 and appeared to have brand new pads in them when I had a look . As said above they are basically the same design as Granada calipers but they will allow you to fit much bigger discs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 20:57:29 GMT
|
E38 brembo on focus rs disks And there's actually a chap that sells the correct spacer bracket too Clearance with 17" oz wheels
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 21:32:34 GMT
|
Alfa 166 v6 models also use the 4 pot brembo's.. Peugeot 406 v6 coupe also.
Many modern alfa's use the brembo's. Mostly models with the sportier engines, Mito 1.4Tb or giulietta 1.8Tb for instance.
|
|
|
|
ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 21:47:08 GMT
|
Mk3 mondeo with st170 discs This. I am not saying this either because I have some to sell! I speak as I had a similar setup on my Escort RST. In short the car went from: Setup 1Wilwood Dynalite 4 pots on Hawk pads 283mm Cosworth 2WD discs Series 2 RST rear drums To: Setup 2The above but Cosworth 4WD single piston calipers on TRW OEM pads The difference in braking power between the two with that setup was simply staggering. You really could trust the brakes on track or off! The Mondeo/ST170 setup is meant to be as good and looking at the specs I can believe it! Why didn't I do it? I already had the Cosworth discs and I didn't want to drill out my hubs to take an M12 bolt, which is necessary for the Mondeo setup. Sure, you won't win any dick length prizes with sliding calipers but there are a few good points. They are a cheap and they work very very well. According to a known Ford tuner he was saying you'd need APs to get better than those and then you are getting silly with regards to braking power (i.e, too much, even on a car with 300BHP). There's my thread below on enquiring as to why. Since that I am very suspicious of so called 'cheap' 4 pot coversions and I've owned quite a few cars with 4 pots: retrorides.proboards.com/thread/179517/exactly-influences-braking-powerPut it this way. ALOT of TVR guys swear by the sliding piston 4WD and 2WD disc setup and it's easy to see why when you try them. FWIW, Mondeo brake caliper pistons go back in with mole grips or a G clamp . I'll have to double check but the pistons are around 60mm. If they can hurl a 1500+kg Mondeo aptly to a stop...
|
|
Last Edit: Feb 2, 2017 18:03:26 GMT by ChasR
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 23:27:51 GMT
|
That's a good bit to think about. I suppose that the mondeo jobs being similar in size to the granny ones I have would mean that the brake travel and feel would remain pretty similar, and it's just the difference in rotor diameter that'll really make the difference. I don't think the pads are even that different in area. They definitely seem to avoid the Brembo tax, although is seems that if they come from an ST220 you can pay an extra £70-£140 for what seems exactly the same as other mondeo callipers. That thread's pretty enlightening ChasR, and I think yer man adam73bgt hits a nail on the head when he says "Sliding fist type callipers may help with this as (for the same size wheel) you can fit a larger disc with a sliding fist due to them having a lower profile over the top of the disc compared to the opposed piston." In my case I think that it'll make the difference between 300mm and 325mm discs. Then as Dez pointed out there's master piston size - at the moment it's pretty well balanced with the tried'n'tested Capri Combo of Granny-slave-Landy-master, so maintaining that would be good. There's a bias box lurking in the wings though, so I'll have to see what the size of the cylinders in that is before I make many decisions. I don't think that any of them'll be a straight fit to the Capri Bilstein legs, as the granny ones need an adapter plate. Albeit an adapter plate that currently needs four washers of varying thickness... that may well be remade in a slightly less rubbish way. And maybe I'll use high-tensile bolts this time. Unlike the previous owner's effort with the dodgy weak shiny lovely stainless ones that I discovered when I disassembled it all. Always reassuring. But anyway, they might form a template for the things needed for the Mondeo callipers. Lots to digest, thanks guys.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2017 23:50:31 GMT
|
MK4 golf v5 312mm ones. Come on TT's and other various VAG cars. Plus lots of adaptation due to the mk2 golf scene.
|
|
1996 Golf GTi Colour Concept, 1.8T 20v. 1993 316 Touring, M20B25 Turbo (Ongoing).
|
|
njw
Part of things
Posts: 226
|
|
Jan 31, 2017 17:24:07 GMT
|
'although is seems that if they come from an ST220 you can pay an extra £70-£140 for what seems exactly the same as other mondeo callipers.'
All mk3 Mondeos were fitted with the exact same front brakes from the boggo basic 1.8lX's right up to the ST220.
|
|
|
|
ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
|
|
Jan 31, 2017 17:32:37 GMT
|
I was going to say.
I think CapriSport's kit was based on the Mondeo MkI brakes, which according even to Will Holman of PPC were an improvement over the M14s but also the much coveted Princess calipers.
Dez had a point about the ratios but then you could argue I would have been in a world of bias boxes etc which adds another level of stuff to think about.
One thing that wasn't considered was that the Wilwood pads were considerably smaller than the Ford items. Even with the pad size I wonder if the stopping power would have rivalled the Cosworth items.
|
|
Last Edit: Feb 1, 2017 13:51:48 GMT by ChasR
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
I thought that looked like the case njw! Thanks for confirming that. I have a bias box to go in my new shell ChasR, so I'm thinking that maybe it's worth getting a set of multi-pot callipers that'll match what I have in there. It certainly makes things a bit more complicated though...
|
|
|
|
mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
|
|
|
I replaced the standard Ford 2pot calipers on my Granny with a set of Brembo from an e38 728, and also used the same vehicles discs as well and the pedal feel is just like standard They also have different sized pistons trailing and leading in the Brembos so that the pad is less grabby in operation. And they seem to stop 1500kg of Ford in a pretty good hurry With the Capri setup, it depends how you are mounting the disc as to what size wheel you can get the biggest brakes behind. If you are running modified hubs to allow the disc to slide over the front then you will be nearer to the smaller diameter part of the rim. If it is behind as per original (as mine is) you can get 316mm discs behind a 16inch wheel with room to spare too (next disc change for me will be two piece discs and going up to 325mm possibly)
|
|
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
Mine's been altered so that the discs sit on the front. I noticed that the rim will be narrower next to the callipers after they're been banded.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
you need to calculate the piston area to compare braking effort
e38 has 4 pistons, but the piston area is only the same as the 62mm [IIRC] single piston in the V8 e39 sliding calipers.
Audi S4s have the same size pistons, but use a radial mount caliper that might be easier to fit. The 406 and fiat calipers have smaller piston area. Depending on size you may need a bigger master cyl. biggest 4 pots are on Lexus 430s
|
|
|
|
|