jordy
Part of things
Posts: 234
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I finally have my project on the road !
I have no no experience on the running of the beetles , the tick over seems very fast and it is very thirsty - it's a 1600 engine.
1st, 2nd , 3rd is great - 4th seems to only be good for over 40mph . The fuel mixture seems to be very rich or the auto choke is stuck
could someone please describe the general running of these beetles ? Drives good , feels very quick but I think it's running rich
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,452
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With standard wheels and tyres, my 1300 Beetle could maintain 25mph in 4th gear. Should be torquey low down.
Sounds like you have a 009 distributor and your engine is in need of a good service and tune. Standard carb and air filter?
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Last Edit: Feb 5, 2017 10:21:18 GMT by tofufi
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Beetles do not have a 1:1 gear in the transmission, 4th is overdrive. You can treat it almost as if you're driving 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then 5th. 1300cc Beetles also have a different (shorter) diff ratio than 1600cc ones. Idle speed should be quite slow, you should really check this with a tachometer and adjust it. The main thing is to have it idling fast enough that the generator charge light doesn't glow. Generally, the auto choke should switch off after only a few minutes. Given that this is basically an "unknown" car, you need to start with the basics. Does it have the stock distributor and carburettor? From memory, you should have both vacuum and centrifugal advance and a 34PICT-3 or similar. If you don't have a vacuum advance canister hooked up, then as tofufi says you probably have a non-standard distributor like a Bosch 009, which will give you flat spots with the stock carburettor. There are also various aftermarket electronic distributors around, but generally for a stock engine you would want to have vacuum advance. If everything is stock, set the timing as per the manual, depending on which engine you have. If you're new to VWs, it's well worth getting a workshop manual. The "idiot book" is very good, and even the Haynes manual is good for Beetles. This site also has a lot of information: www.vw-resource.com/34pict3.htmlMy final piece of advice would be to find someone local who knows about Beetles and can help you. They were very common cars for a long time, so lots of people should still have the right knowledge.
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zeberdee
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 932
Club RR Member Number: 2
Member is Online
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Are you running lower profile front tyres ?
My 1600 will just about sit at 30 in 4th , although it isn't overly happy about it . The speedo reads about 40mph though as its on smaller front tyres .
Engines really need to be set right to get the best out of them .
Mine has an electronic ignition , when the timing is out , even by a small amount , it affects the tickover & general running . Also tappet gaps seem to have a big effect on it .
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jordy
Part of things
Posts: 234
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Thanks so much for the info guys - these cars seem a bit more complicated than I thought !
What I know is it does have the 009 alternator with no vacuum advance , I did notice when I started running it there was tapped noises which have gone now . I've no idea how hot it's running but I'm guessing hotter than it should be.
I am running smaller profile tyres on the front and bigger on the back which I realise will effect the gearing ratio .
I'm thinking of buying a new carb - I think it's leaking fuel somewhere as it's always wet and smells of fuel - then get a carb guy to come do the rest - my experience in the past with carbs has always been hit and hope - they never really seem to run well after you mess with them in the slightest . I figured I'm getting at most 15mpg out of it - which isn't great lol
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,452
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Thanks so much for the info guys - these cars seem a bit more complicated than I thought ! What I know is it does have the 009 alternator with no vacuum advance , I did notice when I started running it there was tapped noises which have gone now . I've no idea how hot it's running but I'm guessing hotter than it should be. I am running smaller profile tyres on the front and bigger on the back which I realise will effect the gearing ratio . I'm thinking of buying a new carb - I think it's leaking fuel somewhere as it's always wet and smells of fuel - then get a carb guy to come do the rest - my experience in the past with carbs has always been hit and hope - they never really seem to run well after you mess with them in the slightest . I figured I'm getting at most 15mpg out of it - which isn't great lol 009s are known for causing flat spots on these engines. The wet carb could be caused by carb icing in this weather - do you have a standard air filter? The standard air filter supplies the carb with warm air on cold starts to alleviate carb icing.
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Is it an original carb? It might be worth keeping, I've heard the reproduction ones are not much good. Check that the shafts are tight and then give it a good wipe to try and find the leak.
One thing to check if you have a fuel leak is to make sure the fuel inlet fitting is tight. Try wiggling the fuel hose where it attaches to the carb and see if it moves. They're a brass insert and can come loose. Sometimes you can re-seat them by taking the hose off and giving it a sharp tap with a hammer.
Have you got an engine bay pic?
Vacuum advance is definitely the way forward.
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jordy
Part of things
Posts: 234
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Thanks for the posts guys .
Tonight I checked and reset the timing - it was at around 30 degrees advanced ! So looked online and set it to 10 dregs . Looked at the carb..... very confusing , the auto choke wasn't engaging so I rest that - only to find where the cam for the butterfly which rests on top of the idle screw ( there is a long flat the steps above it to set idling fast for something to setup ? ) , below that is a small brass leg which rests on the lower part of the cam - bear with me , confusing I know ! So the butterfly can only move about 1mm open/ cloaked as it is restricted by the two parts mentioned ?! I set the idle screw on the first step , started the car and the butterfly closed then opened when warm - Great ! That's what I kind of expected - revved the car and the idle screw slips down to the log flat part of the cam... which makes the choke redundant as it can't open or close . What's going on with this ?
Good point - I found the carb was so dirty and wet because the breather pipe to the air filter was throwing up a bit of oil into the carb - thus making the carb run in oil and petrol and smothering the air filter in oil ( it has a pancake filter ) , removing this issue along with the timing adjustment the car started first turn of the key .
Bad point - there must be a lot of back pressure from worn pistons to be throwing so much oil up the pipe ? Read up a little and it says I need a oil catch tank to help this out .
Next question - what bits do I need to get for an oil temp gauge to fit with the oil pressure sensor ? Apparently there is a way to do this but I've no idea where to get these bits - specially the adaptor piece to fit two sensors in one hole
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jordy
Part of things
Posts: 234
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I have diagrams now of the above carb confusion . The idle control screw marked A. Prevents any clockwise movement of the shaft on the top butterfly. B. Prevents any counter clockwise movement Results in 1mm movement in the butterfly !? am I being super thick here and missed something
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jordy
Part of things
Posts: 234
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Another poor diagram lol If I move the idle screw to the first step marked in solid red - this gives me clearance marked hollow red , for the "leg" to move to allow the choke to open and close . But as soon as I accelerate the cam drops putting the idle screw back into the locked choke position . I've noticed the cam feels loose although the nut is tight , perhaps a spring washer is missing ? I had removed the nut on the end - only a nut was on there nothing else ( has been put back on )
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Last Edit: Feb 7, 2017 23:55:10 GMT by jordy
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zeberdee
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 932
Club RR Member Number: 2
Member is Online
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If you have the 009 dizzy fitted , it should be 30 degrees at 3000rpm . Think thats a base setting & can be adjusted slightly from there .
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Congrats on getting the car on the road!
Your first step as others have said is to replace that 009 with a standard distributor to get your vacuum advance back - it was a common myth at one time that the 009 by itself was some sort of magical upgrade - you should be able to get a good used one quite easily on eBay I would have thought. I don't know enough to know whether the advance curves varied between the engine sizes so to be sure, go for one from a 1600 beetle engine (as opposed to camper van etc.).
Once you have done that, I would set the rocker clearances (tappets) and do a compression check (throttle must be wide open when cranking the engine). Assuming the readings you get are within acceptable ranges (someone else can chime in with what to expect) then you have established the basic health of the top end and cylinder bores of the engine and can then Move on to the carb.
To be clear, are you saying the choke doesn't engage when the engine is cold - I.e. the idle control screw (which is attached to the throttle, correct?) does not move far enough back when you press the throttle to allow the choke cam to drop down, thus closing the choke? Otherwise if it does then it sounds like it's working correctly, however you should be getting 25 - 30 mpg so clearly something is wrong. Can you follow the above steps and answer my clarification question here so we can help you diagnose further? We will get there if you're thorough and take lots of pics so we can see what you see.
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Last Edit: Feb 8, 2017 15:02:53 GMT by djefk
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That cam is the fast idle cam for the choke. It should be loose. Warm the engine up and then adjust the idle on the flat underneath the steps on the cam. On the other end of that shaft there is a round unit with an electrical connection on it. That is secured with a little plate with three screws. Take that unit off and you will see a coil spring inside with a hook on the end. That is a bimetal strip connect 12v to it and you should see it unwind. If it doesn't, it's mullered. If it's good, let it cool down , hook end back onto peg on shaft.Wait until car is ice cold again. Then, with the throttle open, engine not running, wind that unit around until the choke flap is just closed. Tighten it there. Then, check when you switch the ignition on , that you get 12v there. Job done.
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Last Edit: Feb 8, 2017 13:11:34 GMT by Deleted
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^ as above It's a long time since I had a Bettle but the choke on mine was stepped (same as yours). When cold, the plunger ("finger") hit the first step to give a very fast idle As it warmed up, the finger moved to hit the 2nd, 3rd etc steps. When up to temp, the was choke was fully off.
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jordy
Part of things
Posts: 234
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I'm still confused though because in the setting below the step as it naturally seems to want to be - it locks the top butterfly open, so it can't close or open the choke - this doesn't seem right
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When the engine is warm the cam sits where it is in the pics as the spring is loose. As the engine cools the spring in the choke tries to rotate the cam clockwise. It cant though as the throttle screw is in the way.
You get in the car in the morning, press the accelerator and the cam will spring round clockwise into the 'choke on' position as the throttle screw gets out of the way.
Make sense?
Start up procedure when cold includes pressing the accelerator so the choke can reset itself.
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jordy
Part of things
Posts: 234
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Feb 10, 2017 20:35:55 GMT
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Brilliant I'll try that tomorrow
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Feb 10, 2017 21:34:22 GMT
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That is the FAST idle screw, not the idle screw.
The top butterfly is the choke, it should be closed up when cold and open fully open when the choke is off.(it is closed in you picture, which is correct for a warm engine)
Choke is electrically contolled (basically a heating element), its on the otherside of the carb, has a single wire going to it, you adjust it by loosing the 3 screws slightly and turning it.
It should sit where it is on your picture when the choke is off and on the top step with a cold engine, and should drop down the little steps as it warms up.
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Regarding the oil from the breather, don't mess about with any kind of oil catch can. The original oil-bath type air cleaner does a perfect job of catching the oil, just pick up one of those and stick it on. Note also that the correct type of distributor is shown in this photo, which is a double vacuum, double advance (DVDA), i.e. vacuum to advance and retard, plus centrifugal advance. The main idea of the vacuum retard unit was to reduce emissions I believe. You can also use the SVDA type, which only has the one vacuum mechanism and a centrifugal advance, as fitted to earlier Beetles.
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Feb 13, 2017 20:51:50 GMT
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Show us a pic of the whole engine, my young trouser. She's running, so there's nowt serious the matter. Don't get bogged down in how your choke works, it's working. Now, once you have gone through this list: Set timing to 30* max advance @ 3000rpm and set your points gap after putting new points in there www.vw-resource.com/009_dizzy.htmlSet valve clearance (rocker covers off and oily time) www.vw-resource.com/valve_adjust.htmlSet your carb up www.vw-resource.com/34pict3.htmlChanged your oil (no you aren't getting a "How To" on that, if you can't do that, go and kick yourself in the balls and try again). Have a good sniff of the oil. If it smells of petrol, let us know, and get looking for a new fuel pump but don't buy one yet. If, when you have done that, you still have a fast idle, that won't adjust out with your idle screw (NOT your fast idle screw, your actual idle screw), then you most likely have an air leak, or you are LEAN. Run the engine for 10 minutes or so, pull out a spark plug and show us a photo. Black and sooty and dirty = rich. Ceramic on your plugs scorched light brown and your electrode the same = lean. Somewhere in between (like coffee with cream colour) then you are stoic (and if you are stoic, then you can have a go on my Missus, because I've never, ever seen a carb'd Bug be bob on throughout the rev range). You wanna be a touch rich ideally. Then you are going to put new good quality spark plugs in there. Next up, we're gonna make sure your carb: Is the right carb Is jetted and choked correctly Is not made of fizzy pop bottles, tin foil and pipe cleaners (i.e. originates from neither China nor Mexico) Is fitted correctly, and has no air leaks Then we are gonna look at that dizzy you have. Yes a vac advance is better, but don't stick it in the naughty bin straight away, it's liveable depending how you drive. We're also gonna check out your exhaust, we're gonna make sure your fan belt tension is correct, and we are going to have a jolly good look at your air filter (if you have a pancake filter on there, take yourself up stairs, kick yourself in the balls again, and come back when you are feeling more sensible). You're also going to check your end float - grab the crank pulley and push with all your might back and forth. You should "feel" the tiniest bit of play, but not be able to see it. If you can see it move, then we're going to have a bit of a cry and a cuddle. If you can "feel" it but not see it, that will do (no we're not going to fanny around with feeler gauges or anything daft). Last thing is you are going to post a pic of your engine bay!!! And if I see a clear plastic fuel filter in there, well, you are going to go up stairs, and you are going to kick yourself in the balls again TWICE this time. Then you are going to eat it. If, after all ^that^ it's still drinking fuel, not running all that well and arguing with you about 4th gear, then we're going to look deeper
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