miaspa
Part of things
Posts: 829
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Strictly speaking if the body shells not a new one from Ford the car should be on a Q plate. MGB's etc were direct from original manufacturer so original identity could be retained.
That's my understanding of the rules but happy to be proved wrong.
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Found my flashing Pao again.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:10:00 GMT
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seven grand for a perfect new shell is pretty cheap, try to restore an old, rotten shell for this money! ^ Bingo. It's a choice of 7 grand for a new one ready asap or wait (years???) while you get the parts & labour & time to restore an original (and end up with a not-new shell). New one every time for me please ... but I don't know what hoops you need jump thru' to get it on the road legally Nice to have it as an option, even if just for track/rallycross use
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brand new mk2 escort shells Mercdan68
@forddan68
Club Retro Rides Member 68
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Feb 18, 2017 10:44:13 GMT
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It's a ringers dream unfortunately Surely ringing a car involves nicking a car and striping it of its id, only to put another id on it. These bodies will be a blank canvas so it will only result in a car being reshelled. Minis have been doing it for years, MGB's also. My dad even did it with an Austin Maxi. The bodyshell was found in a breakers in shropshire, brand new, didnt make it to the production line due to it having a couple of little dents in the roof, so it had no id. He bought the bodyshell, and bought a scrapper for its id. The car was rebuilt in blue and contained 90% new parts yet was still the very same spec as the car that was bought for its id. The only time i can see a problem is if an escort gets stolen for parts to complete the build, the id will have to come from a legitimate car, so if the rally boys do it they'll probably have all the parts already. Sorry but this how it works, buy a rotten pig off eBay...there's plenty to choose from , which isn't right Buy a new shell.....then these thieving scum steal a minter with all the parts they need which cost thousands now, then cut up and destroy the original shell, no matter it's all wrong, it's been going on in the ford world and the mini world and from what I've read In the Land Rover world Add to that the rise in trackers being hidden in show cars To find there whereabouts it's not good at all...just my opinion
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Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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Feb 18, 2017 11:03:28 GMT
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very true. if the have the shell and the id they'll still need the parts.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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brand new mk2 escort shells Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Feb 18, 2017 11:18:00 GMT
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Someone puts in a considerable amount of effort into tooling up to make what I hear are pretty accurate reproduction shells of a desirable model in dwindling supply, and all you lot do is b1tch and moan. They're probably going to be better built than the originals, as they're being sold to a pickier market, plus production techniques have come on a lot in 30 years. That and ford build quality was dire in the first place.
I don't see it saying anywhere in the DVLA regs that a 'like for like replacement' has to be from the original manufacturer, or approved by them, just it has to be the same. Otherwise every landy in the country on a galv chassis is a ringer, as is every monocoque car repaired with pattern panels, or any car with pattern parts fitted that replace any of the DVLA pointed items should loose identity points.
It won't fuel the theft of escorts either. If anything it will lessen them-supply/demand. All it's done is make cars that were once deemed unrestorable viable again.
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Feb 18, 2017 13:17:01 GMT
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Someone puts in a considerable amount of effort into tooling up to make what I hear are pretty accurate reproduction shells of a desirable model in dwindling supply, and all you lot do is b1tch and moan. They're probably going to be better built than the originals, as they're being sold to a pickier market, plus production techniques have come on a lot in 30 years. That and ford build quality was dire in the first place. I don't see it saying anywhere in the DVLA regs that a 'like for like replacement' has to be from the original manufacturer, or approved by them, just it has to be the same. Otherwise every landy in the country on a galv chassis is a ringer, as is every monocoque car repaired with pattern panels, or any car with pattern parts fitted that replace any of the DVLA pointed items should loose identity points. It won't fuel the theft of escorts either. If anything it will lessen them-supply/demand. All it's done is make cars that were once deemed unrestorable viable again. Well said. The amount of curse word and vinegar about these days is huge. God forbid amongst all the bad car news (insurance, curse word fuel, theft, ignorant tree huggers etc) we might enjoy some good news. BTW the same man is now remaking bonnets, boots, doors, all new glass in clear or brown tint or green tint etc etc The MK1 will be along in good time.
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,000
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Feb 18, 2017 15:41:55 GMT
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There's fibreglass mk1 shells available or if your pockets are a bit deeper www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/classic2.htmlWhat is to stop you using a classic shell for a ground up build then putting it through biva and having a brand new classic Ttfn Glenn
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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brand new mk2 escort shells scimjim
@scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member 8
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Feb 18, 2017 20:50:37 GMT
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I don't see it saying anywhere in the DVLA regs that a 'like for like replacement' has to be from the original manufacturer, or approved by them, just it has to be the same. Otherwise every landy in the country on a galv chassis is a ringer... Technically, yes - every LR on a replacement chassis that didn't come from LR should be IVA/Q plate. It's one of the few things that isn't a grey area, the mandatory 5 points come from "Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)".
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Feb 18, 2017 22:02:15 GMT
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I don't see it saying anywhere in the DVLA regs that a 'like for like replacement' has to be from the original manufacturer, or approved by them, just it has to be the same. Otherwise every landy in the country on a galv chassis is a ringer... Technically, yes - every LR on a replacement chassis that didn't come from LR should be IVA/Q plate. It's one of the few things that isn't a grey area, the mandatory 5 points come from "Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)". I can make that a grey area. For example, the maxi my dad built. He bought the bodyshell from a breakers yard, so not direct from the manufacturer, authough it did go directly from the manufacturer into the yard, along with some Allegros and Marina bodies. Does that mean it should have been on a Q plate?
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misteralz
Posted a lot
I may drive a Volkswagen, but I'm scene tax exempt!
Posts: 2,338
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I don't see it saying anywhere in the DVLA regs that a 'like for like replacement' has to be from the original manufacturer, or approved by them, just it has to be the same. Otherwise every landy in the country on a galv chassis is a ringer... Technically, yes - every LR on a replacement chassis that didn't come from LR should be IVA/Q plate. It's one of the few things that isn't a grey area, the mandatory 5 points come from "Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)". But actually no - unless you swap out a Series chassis for a Defender one or similar.
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If these are available for £7k I think thats good value, IIRC an RS 2000 shell in kit form (can't remember if it was all genuine panels) sold on the usual auction site for just over £10k a while back, and that had no ID either, and you'd have needed a jig to make sure it was square when it was welded up
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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brand new mk2 escort shells scimjim
@scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member 8
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Technically, yes - every LR on a replacement chassis that didn't come from LR should be IVA/Q plate. It's one of the few things that isn't a grey area, the mandatory 5 points come from "Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)". I can make that a grey area. For example, the maxi my dad built. He bought the bodyshell from a breakers yard, so not direct from the manufacturer, authough it did go directly from the manufacturer into the yard, along with some Allegros and Marina bodies. Does that mean it should have been on a Q plate? Nope - it could keep the registration of the monocoque. Edit - assuming it could retain 8 points
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Last Edit: Feb 19, 2017 9:40:39 GMT by scimjim
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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brand new mk2 escort shells scimjim
@scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member 8
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Technically, yes - every LR on a replacement chassis that didn't come from LR should be IVA/Q plate. It's one of the few things that isn't a grey area, the mandatory 5 points come from "Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)". But actually no - unless you swap out a Series chassis for a Defender one or similar. If your new chassis doesn't have an ID (original) and it didn't come from LR (new), it's IVA territory. Doesn't matter what we think or do, that's the regs.
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Last Edit: Feb 19, 2017 9:02:15 GMT by scimjim
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,563
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Feb 19, 2017 10:06:34 GMT
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This is a case of interpreting the rules to suit what you want really but if it states 'direct from the manufacturer' but doesn't actually state what qualifies a supplier to be classed a manufacturer then you are sort of OK. I expect if you read through all the regulations there is more involved. I seem to remember most OE factory shells used to come with a new body number, not sure what has happened more recently though.
In terms of what could make the new shells OK to use on the road could the supplier issue a body number which could then be added to the donor cars logbook with an explanation of some sort in the comments section like you used to with kit cars. The main reason DVLA have introduced all these regulations is due to people ringing cars but if you had proof the shell was from a new supplier, that at least should be OK. All this would involve inspections etc but as with anything else would rely on people being honest.
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,563
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Feb 19, 2017 10:16:03 GMT
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I can make that a grey area. For example, the maxi my dad built. He bought the bodyshell from a breakers yard, so not direct from the manufacturer, authough it did go directly from the manufacturer into the yard, along with some Allegros and Marina bodies. Does that mean it should have been on a Q plate? If the shell had never been registered then that is OK. The problem the DVLA has is if you give a previously registered shell a new ID. If they could be bothered to sort things out this need not be a problem provided the donor car is registered to the person wanting to do it.
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Feb 19, 2017 13:05:28 GMT
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The main reason DVLA have introduced all these regulations is due to people ringing cars but if you had proof the shell was from a new supplier, that at least should be OK. All this would involve inspections etc but as with anything else would rely on people being honest. Hi, DVLA haven't just introduced all these regulations, they have been there for years, they just haven't enforced them. They can see what's going on just by reading build threads on sites like this. The ringing of cars has been going on for decades but it was done by people who knew it was wrong and so it was done covertly. The problem now is attitude to an extent, people don't think it's important which is why there are so many logbook sales on public auction sites. Colin
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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This is all a matter of interpretation and common sense. . . to a point. Basically, the IVA and it's associated trappings is there to register un-register-able ( probably not a real word ) vehicles that do not and can not have an identity. In these cases the vehicle must be inspected as per VOSA/DVLA rules. The rules have to cover the governing body's collective asses, so they are strict and complete in their minutiae. However, in practice, we all have at some point ignored the rules and regs, as in nearly every vehicle on this site probably fails the IVA. If you have moved your gearlever hole for instance, that is a chassis mod, and as such your vehicle needs an IVA, are you gonna stick your hands up and ring the DVLA? nope.... because in the large scheme of things it doesn't matter really, so you'll go on driving your potentially illegal car. It's been going on for years, no one really cares, even the dvla turn a blind eye, you don't think they don't know that your pride and joy is no longer a 1.1 escort pop? They know the car must've have been extensively modified to take whatever engine, brakes and axles you've squeezed into it, if you've registered an engine change with them. And reshells are no different, thats been going on for years too, my HB, if/when it gets finished, will have hardly any of it's original gear on it, wether trim, engine, or chassis, the DVLA know about this, in fact they've known about every engine change it's ever had, from lowly 1256cc, through lotus twin cam, to ford v6. It now is registered with a ford DOHC 1.6 engine number, they haven't batted an eyelid, it's not important to them. So if you have the money, and want to reshell your Escort, or build one from a box of bits and a log book, i'd snap up one of these shells asap ....just sayin'
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has to be a good thing , 7k wouldnt get you far patching up a rot box , theyve always been stolen so cant see it changing alot
hats off to the guy thats sorted getting a whole made , must be a hell of task !
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Are the chassis numbers on a plate or stamped in to the shell?
If they are only plated, it's a much cheaper way to restore your mk2 - now I'm not saying it's legal, but how could it be proved otherwise?
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think they're a riveted plate and stamped elsewhere , not beyond a competent diyer to weld in a square of the old shell and grind it up neatly
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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