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Mar 11, 2017 10:37:43 GMT
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Bummer, sounds like you are doing all the right checks.
Are you on the e30zone forum? I know m30's were not fitted in e30's (apart from in South Africa) but there are some people on that forum who are very knowledgeable about the Bosch motronic injection stuff and might have further suggestions.
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 11, 2017 14:22:58 GMT
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It's good to get it all checked over as it's not been done to such an extent before. Found a fair few issues with it and gained a lot more info on the car so it's a worthwhile exercise. At the very least, it's usable, still pretty reliable and performs really well, just a little 'off key' perhaps. I'm going to have a break from it for now until I can throw some more pound notes at it next month. But I'll check that forum out for any secretive information I can obtain.
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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Mar 11, 2017 14:52:57 GMT
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what type of motronic does it run? I'm fairly familiar with it from engines like the later cat equipped 1.9 gti 205's and the 405 Mi16 engines.
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Mar 12, 2017 19:43:58 GMT
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Have you been able to measure the fuel pressure? This should also vary with engine load as it uses manifold pressure to adjust itself and keep the fuel pressure a constant amount above manifold pressure. If this is high, even by a fairly small amount, it will be rich all the time but richer still when warming up and if it's not referencing to manifold pressure properly it would cause richer running at idle small throttle openings. If high it could a faulty regulator, blocked vacuum line or restricted return line.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 12, 2017 20:39:43 GMT
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That's along my lines of thinking. It's been running smelly for quite some time, i noticed it last summer when the windows were down. I know all the intake stuff and vacuum lines are ok now. Messing around, adjusting and cleaning it out has knocked the stink way down, it was making cyclists near on pass out as i drove past. Now it's not changing whatever i do to the intake system. The bulk of the problem is when it's warming up then it's just 'a bit Smelly' but the car runs. When time permits I'll get a test kit for the system and change the regulator. I'm fairly confident that the remaining issues are coming from the fuelling area. It is running now the best it has done for a long time. The injector cleaning session and some good runs appear to have got rid of much of the lumpiness but i think its still far off of balancing a coin on the engine whilst it's running!
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Last Edit: Mar 12, 2017 20:55:30 GMT by rude
1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Mar 13, 2017 12:06:44 GMT
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it was making cyclists near on pass out as i drove past. Good reason to stop fixing it right there LOL
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 14, 2017 21:40:12 GMT
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(Whispering and touching a bit of wood but not that kind of wood....) Another 200 miles on it today and its totally fault free, can't say about the fumes as I didn't smell anything but then... I didn't get gassed out either... Ssshhhhhhh...
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 18, 2017 21:37:07 GMT
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11) The inlet manifold to head was tightened but there is this strange occasional creak coming from it seems within the manifold itself when the engine is shut down, it sounds a bit like something is trying to close but is sticking? Finally solved this mystery today! Ooohh, what's this...? I heard the strange intermittent creaking noise again after the engine was shut down. So i thought I'd dedicate some of my life to finding it, even if it meant removing the inlet manifold. Luckily i didn't have to go that far as deep in the depths hiding behind the starter motor supply cable I found the bottom support for the inlet manifold and fourth engine mount bolt missing completely and finding the alignment of the support like this suggests some scrote in the past had bent it out of the way to gain access to whatever and couldn't be arsed to put it back... Yee haa! What's more, resting between this support and the block was a rather large metal coolant pipe support which had been abandoned long ago... I'm still trying to find where that goes. I sourced another bolt, straightened the support and bobs your farvers bruvver... Creaking noise has gone, plus my engine mount is complete. It totally bewilders me how I am still finding stuff like this on a car I've had for 6 years ish!
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Some developments... Now with a few miles on it a frequent pattern has materialised. When it's warm and running fine you can rev the engine under normal conditions and once you let off of the gas the revs drop and if you can imagine, they are 'caught' at around 600rpm to stop the engine stalling and the engine is set to idle at around 600/ 650 in Drive, about 800/850 in neutral. Well, when the engine is cold this intermittently doesn't happen and the revs plunge into free fall and struggle to rise back up causing the revs to rise and fall and eventually it stalls. Like I wrote, this doesn't happen when it's remotely warm but it's a bit suspicious under load, e.g. the steering is locked. Just another clue but I don't think I can rule out the fuel regulator yet until I can change it. Performance on the open road is fine with plenty of power, shifting along quite nicely... This is the enigma that is the BMW 635...
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Last Edit: Mar 22, 2017 8:20:47 GMT by rude
1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,226
Club RR Member Number: 160
Member is Online
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635CSi gremlin in the engine.Rich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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I think I'd want the idle speed to be at 800 give or take IN drive, not neutral, unless it causes issues with drive take up and creep, that's set too low so I wonder if your stalling issues there are its just missing it's 'target' RPM and stalling?
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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I don't have my compendium of information with me right now to check what it should be in the book. The web takes you to all manor of places. I should look at changing out the idle switch, I mean, it tests out fine but for what it's worth and given that it's banging on for 31 years old, at best I get a new part and a spare, at worst it's cost me a few quid. And so we start eating into Aprils budget... This car actually does have it's own bank account (which is empty... most of the time!).
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Mar 22, 2017 10:16:35 GMT
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You have tried an Italian tune up, right?
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 22, 2017 10:58:27 GMT
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lol, most days. This engine goes against all my principals. If it's old then you need to take it easy... Not with these! Do that and they die on you. Leave it laid up for a bit and it'll reward you with... more problems! Smash the granny out of it and it'll start tomorrow! The biggest issue any 635 owner faces is the national speed limit, the car laughs at you piddleing along at 70 "your not even halfway on the speedo mate...", and don't even get me started on urban 20's... The auto box thinks you've stopped for a rest.
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Last Edit: Mar 22, 2017 11:07:20 GMT by rude
1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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Mar 22, 2017 19:10:13 GMT
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I know nothing about these but is there not a separate idle control ECU on these? I thought it used a similar set up to the fuel injected big Opels of the same era which had a separate idle control or stall control unit I think it might have been called, a small box about 3/3/2 inches with 2 circular plugs, I might be talking rubbish but you never know!
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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They have a AFM then ICV then throttle body where a throttle switch is located which is basically activated when the throttle is at rest. there is a potentiometer on the throttle shaft going through the body to which the butterfly is on. I can't get all nuts and bolts with it right now but I do have some time to sit in it after a run and monitor it's idle. I have noticed that holding the throttle open at 2000rpm creates this pattern of a low rumble which is hard to explain, say it rotates fine at 2000 but every other second there is a rumble for a half second, a bit like a misfire but on all cylinders. This is noticeably worse when cold but for the same times as stated above. It does that the whole time, hot or cold which to me suggests it's not fuelling properly and I'd hazard a guess that it's 'running out of fuel or getting too much fuel' during the cycles. I had a thought last night that I didn't notice this before the AFM blew it's top but there were a whole bag of issues as described in above posts so it could have been masked. BUT, when I rebuilt the AFM I set the resistor plate to further lean it, only by a small amount, 2 notches, later I realised that this setting was for a cat equipped car. So... even though the engine is somewhat problematic right now, it's consistent with it's issues and I think it might be a good idea to reset the AFM resistor plate BACK to where it was as the engine ran fine when it did work in that position, before all this rubbish started occurring anyway. That way it will eliminate the AFM from the equation. I changed it because of the rich running but I don't think now that the AFM is the main cause despite it's previous antics. The cold start is now disconnected so that removes that, the temp sensor and ICV are replaced and working and all vacuums are new. This in my head leaves the fuel regulator... which I can't change yet. If anyone wants to pipe in with suggestions to the 2000rpm thing, as it could be a clue to the right direction, then feel free. Thanks for all the ideas and stuff in the meantime, it is appreciated. This car is pretty good but when is falls off the wagon it does it in spectacular style... no messin!
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 25, 2017 12:40:06 GMT
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Despite the running issues, I got caught in two and a half hours worth of stop, slightly start, moving really slowly but too fast to describe it as 'stopped' traffic yesterday. Given it's running condition, it didn't do too badly at all, a couple of moments where it had to think about what was going on and it was sat at 500rpm in drive which is way too low. Anyway, set that business aside for now. Because of the traffic I had my foot on the brake most of the time because if I selected park or neutral the traffic would crawl another 10 foot. After an hour I realised that the brake pedal had gone hard and significant effort was required to stop the car, I also noticed a squeak... squeak... squeak... coming from the n/s/f wheel whilst moving and I could then feel the car being slightly held back.. the brakes were binding. The car needed to move but I couldn't find clear enough roads, eventually I did and everything was back to normal after some high speed driving.
So, I have another problem and it's obviously brake related but remember these cars run on pressure from the power steering and use a brake accumulator or 'bomb' as it's better known. Here are some facts:
1) My power steering pump gets all moany when it's hot 2) In the past the steering has locked first thing when very cold after starting the engine, twice I think. Unknown to do that when warm. 3) Power steering fluid is old, it's been topped up significantly quite recently as it was sick 'dead steering' the car when it last broke down. 4) It doesn't loose brake fluid. 5) To my knowledge, the 'bomb' has never been changed.
Here are some questions:
6) Could a junk pump that's lacking in life cause over pressurisation? 7) What would knackered fluid cause when it got hot? 8) Could the low engine speed cause the problem, hence why it returns to normal after a good drive? 9) I'd have though that if the bomb went south then there would be NO brakes? Anyone know how they work before I embark on home schooling for the next 6 hours?
Cheers for any help, I'll just stick the cost of repair on the running tab.
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Last Edit: Mar 25, 2017 12:51:24 GMT by rude
1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 25, 2017 16:41:24 GMT
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Oh dear. I went to have another go at the AFM, took it off and saw the idle mixture screw, thought I'd check that out, got a 5mm Allen key and tried to turn it, i thought that it was strangely seized until i tried it counter clockwise... Nope, it's wound right in tight. I suspect this has been done to counter a past issue or the bloke before was thinking it was a loose bolt! I don't know. I undone it 3 turns as spec and there is no hunting idle since, the revs don't bottom out when they fall, there is no hesitation when blipping the throttle and it sits at 650 rpm quite steadily, even selecting drive has a minor effect on the rpm. I took it for a long run and it's faultless. Could that be the last piece of the Jigsaw? I'd hate to get excited because knowing this car it'll be all back as usual come monday! Tomorrow I'll try a cold start and see what happens, if it's stable and sits like that, then I guess its fixed!
It's one of those things, someone's been there before with bodgery and you just have to keep finding it and putting it right. Fingers crossed!
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,226
Club RR Member Number: 160
Member is Online
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635CSi gremlin in the engine.Rich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Mar 25, 2017 19:48:35 GMT
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Oh dear. I went to have another go at the AFM, took it off and saw the idle mixture screw, thought I'd check that out, got a 5mm Allen key and tried to turn it, i thought that it was strangely seized until i tried it counter clockwise... Nope, it's wound right in tight. I suspect this has been done to counter a past issue or the bloke before was thinking it was a loose bolt! I don't know. I undone it 3 turns as spec and there is no hunting idle since, the revs don't bottom out when they fall, there is no hesitation when blipping the throttle and it sits at 650 rpm quite steadily, even selecting drive has a minor effect on the rpm. I took it for a long run and it's faultless. Could that be the last piece of the Jigsaw? I'd hate to get excited because knowing this car it'll be all back as usual come monday! Tomorrow I'll try a cold start and see what happens, if it's stable and sits like that, then I guess its fixed! It's one of those things, someone's been there before with bodgery and you just have to keep finding it and putting it right. Fingers crossed! Best thing to do at this stage in the game then if the mixture screw was wrong is to get it to a friendly garage with a gas analyzer and get the CO reading spot on, should be something like 0.5% at idle. I check mine on my 518i regularly, gives me a heads up if anything is happening with the 'state of tune'.
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Mar 25, 2017 20:23:43 GMT
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Ref the PAS and brakes I suspect the main problem is the accumulator having lost most of it's gas charge meaning that it's capacity to store pressure is now very limited. Sounds like under stop/start traffic conditions with lots of brake application your pump may well not be generating enough flow/pressure to put back what is being used. Possibly the pump is tired also, or just suffering with ancient fluid.
I would do a fluid change - in fact probably two a few days apart as a bit of a flush out and also get the accumulator sorted. You may be able to get this recharged - they have an internal rubber bladder which is pressurised with nitrogen to something around 80 Bar. Your local hydraulics specialist may be able to help though I'd also check the price of a new one in case it is less!
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 25, 2017 20:36:02 GMT
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Good call, I'm looking at gas analysers right now, like you say, it is a good reference point. I can't believe it's running good, I might push the boat out and listen to the radio instead of the engine whilst using it! Paranoia sucks... hard. Brakes I'm not bothered about, they work and are due an overhaul and I've got to get up to speed with the system. I've only changed the calipers, pads, rebuilt the backplates and handbrake shoes, changed the cables and that's about as far as i know about it! The lines are already copper too which is a result.
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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