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Aug 23, 2007 13:19:32 GMT
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Ultimately, the LAW is there to discourage crafty pikies from stitching two halves of crashed focuses together, or registering nicked cars onto paperwork of accident damaged stuff. I understand why they chase folk over tax evasion too, but I think they are unlikely to kick off over a re-built Monza.
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Aug 23, 2007 13:33:28 GMT
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its straight forward fraud and deception
i cant see why some think its a grey area
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Aug 23, 2007 13:35:07 GMT
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well, because it is one, thats why.
HTH
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Aug 23, 2007 13:54:20 GMT
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how is it grey you are defrauding the government of the tax - and any potential buyers of the car
black and white
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Aug 23, 2007 14:00:56 GMT
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So the points Reginal Bo11ox & I made regarding "all at once" or "one piece at a time" was irrelevant then?
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Aug 23, 2007 14:04:45 GMT
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the ID goes with the shell
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Aug 23, 2007 14:06:50 GMT
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By the time I've finished it, probably the only major component left from the 205 RG will be the shell. Everything else will either be new/from another car.
Makes you think!
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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Aug 23, 2007 14:08:36 GMT
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Ok so afetr reading your comments our midget man here rolls his sleeves up, buys loads of panels and mig-wire and repairs his tax-exempt shell, and the '74 shell gets krushed.
What revenue has the government lost there then?
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Aug 23, 2007 14:09:40 GMT
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the ID goes with the shell Go and read up on the subject. It's on the DVLA website. Or just re-read the thread, as the facts are there. I doubt you will though. I expect you will continue to argue black is white. Which is fine, as you'll probably get run over on the next zebra crossing..... </H2G2>
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Aug 23, 2007 14:21:19 GMT
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the ID goes with the shell Go and read up on the subject. It's on the DVLA website. Or just re-read the thread, as the facts are there. I doubt you will though. I expect you will continue to argue black is white. Which is fine, as you'll probably get run over on the next zebra crossing..... </H2G2> ive read the thread, and the dvla info, the arguement is that a car reshelled with a used body is a hybrid of two existing vehicles and as such should not carry the registration of either. It must have a new VIN and new reg plate, which will be a Q plate. The car will not be tax exempt. Its not a grey area. Its black & white. DVLA: Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts In order to retain the original registration mark: cars and car-derived vans must use: The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt). Adambt said he was wanting to swap plates - not buy a heritage shell, so please explain to me where the 'grey area' is?
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Aug 23, 2007 14:25:41 GMT
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FFS!
We outlined to him that just swapping the plates was naughty. IF HE USES A NEW SHELL (with reciept) AND ORIGINAL COMPONENTS THEN HE WILL BE OK. How hard is that to understand. It even appears in your quotes, twice.
And how hard is it to comprehend that IF you change your shell one year you can change an axle the next and the engine the year after and the gearbox after that and this is fine, no need for VIC checks or interfering, but doing it all at once is not. Ergo, grey area.
And make your signature smaller. It's visually intruding.
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Aug 23, 2007 14:41:01 GMT
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FFS! We outlined to him that just swapping the plates was naughty. IF HE USES A NEW SHELL (with reciept) AND ORIGINAL COMPONENTS THEN HE WILL BE OK. How hard is that to understand. It even appears in your quotes, twice. And how hard is it to comprehend that IF you change your shell one year you can change an axle the next and the engine the year after and the gearbox after that and this is fine, no need for VIC checks or interfering, but doing it all at once is not. Ergo, grey area. And make your signature smaller. It's visually intruding. if he changes the shell for the shell relating to the number plates, or a heritage shell - then it should have a sva test show me where, in this thread the owner says he going to change the shell? scrapmen are not usually offended by the sight of a cortina
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Aug 23, 2007 14:44:29 GMT
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I give up.
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Aug 23, 2007 14:59:34 GMT
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if he changes the shell for the shell relating to the number plates, or a heritage shell - then it should have a sva test What would be the benefit of, or reason for, doing that then?
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Aug 23, 2007 15:03:17 GMT
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I didn't Autofive, i asked the question, the question was answered, I decided I wasn't going to do it and a heritage shell was suggested. The conversation moved on to "the other way round" using a donor car on a solid shell, which we decided is a bit of a grey area. And then you piped up and confused everybody!
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If at first you don't succeed........ ....Don't try skydiving!
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Aug 23, 2007 15:09:39 GMT
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if he changes the shell for the shell relating to the number plates, or a heritage shell - then it should have a sva test What would be the benefit of, or reason for, doing that then? this would be for the benefit of anyone who may buy this car in the future - so they knew they didnt just buy a ringer I didn't Autofive, I asked the question, the question was answered, I decided I wasn't going to do it and a heritage shell was suggested. The conversation moved on to "the other way round" using a donor car on a solid shell, which we decided is a bit of a grey area. And then you piped up and confused everybody! apoligies to you if i confused you - the thread seemed to finding a way forward that was legal, as your original suggestion wasnt.
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Aug 23, 2007 15:15:45 GMT
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if he changes the shell for the shell relating to the number plates, or a heritage shell - then it should have a sva test No, a heritage shell does not require an SVA!! It is considered to be a genuine manufacturer's replacement part
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Last Edit: Aug 23, 2007 15:16:30 GMT by Paul H
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Aug 23, 2007 15:17:55 GMT
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The SVA test would not guarantee against it being a ringer, it checks that the car meets design + construction regs.
SVA testers are not going to say "whoa this 'tax-exempt' midget has got quarterlight frames and integral reversing lamps - it must be a post-76 model + is therefore dodgy" are they. Even if they did, the owner woud just say "yeah i fitted them on purpose, its still a '72 model"
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Aug 23, 2007 15:32:21 GMT
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apoligies to you if I confused you - the thread seemed to finding a way forward that was legal, as your original suggestion wasnt. Which is exactly what we said... Get down of your soapbox and read the thread more carefully It wasn't a "suggestion" it was a question! There's quite a big difference! I'm not trying to wangle out of the law, I wanted to find out what the law is!
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If at first you don't succeed........ ....Don't try skydiving!
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,888
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Aug 23, 2007 15:32:35 GMT
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I understand why they chase folk over tax evasion too, but I think they are unlikely to kick off over a re-built Monza. Nah - good job I've got copies of pictures of it as one piece (as of course it will be when it arrives at mine) Must remember not to take any photos of the Donor untill it's completely stripped down and the shell has gone off to the crusher I'm not doing it for tax exempt purposes both cars are 1985 registered so I have nothing to gain in that respect - The Rally monza has had a fair few plate changes in it's life too I reckon
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