Untapped Potential - Saab Engines

[qwerty]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but there has been a little bit about Saab Engines in PPC over the last couple of issues.

A letter somebody has wrote into the magazine got me thinking.

Post 94 Saab engines (including the 2.3 "hot" Turbo) used GM gearbox pattern. Hence Old Vauxhall RWD boxes and Ford Boxes with XE bellhouses will bolt to the engines!!

Apparently these engines are extremely tuneable (400bhp on Standard internals), I imagine as the cars they encased in are extremely cheap these engines will also be very cheap and being Sweedish highly reliable!

Yeah there's prolly gunna be sump issues to convert to RWD but there is with Zetec's as well!!

So what could be built?? PPC suggested a Lotus Carlton beating Carlton.

How bout a very fast Cossie alternative sierra/escort/cortina?
Manta 400 Replica?

M3 whupping E30 3 Series??

Possibilties are endless!!

Anyone heard of anybody doing the conversion before?

[Lewis]

No but oddly enough I'm tempted to see wether if I can fit one in something.........'Rents are away tomorrow on holiday for a bit...Empty-ish drive....

I like the idea of a 400 horse Slant engined Dolly

I think what's maybe stopping people is the slant itself, it lends itself to making the engine wider and thus various bits of the intake, exhaust and turbo clashing with the surrounding panelwork...Maybe..

[trg1984]

no but it sounds like a corker of an idea to me mate

[Robinxr4i]

Sounds cool, always thought that the 2.3 Aero engine was a stormer. Forgive my ignornace about GM bell houses and gear boxes, but are they all the same pattern like old ford ones?

If so I could get a XE conversion bell house and stick a 2.3 turbo in my Sierra as long as the Type 9 held together (pipe dream, but possible?) at the fraction of a YB conversion. MMMmmmm!

[qwerty]

robinxr4i said:

Sounds cool, always thought that the 2.3 Aero engine was a stormer. Forgive my ignornace about GM bell houses and gear boxes, but are they all the same pattern like old ford ones?

If so I could get a XE conversion bell house and stick a 2.3 turbo in my Sierra as long as the Type 9 held together (pipe dream, but possible?) at the fraction of a YB conversion. MMMmmmm!

They're not the same pattern but companies like SBD offer bellhouse's to mate a Type 9 gearbox to a XE engine.

I was actually thinking about your car for this conversion whilst typing the thread Robin ;D

[Ether]

Haven't some Triumph folk done the conversion?

MB V8s are also an untapped resource - all alloy 5.6-litre V8 for £100 tops!

[akku]

I had often wondered about this. The old Saab 9000 I had, well, I loved the engine, lugged that old beast about no problems with 180K on the clock. Wondered if any RWD options were available... Vauxhall bolt pattern eh? is that all Saab engines or just the GM era ones?

[qwerty]

Only the GM era post '94 apparently

[akku]

meh, complicated modern stuff then...

[popuptoaster]

robinxr4i said:

as long as the Type 9 held together

No Chance, the 24v melts them easily at 200lb/ft with a nice smooh torque curve, besides which if you want cheap cossie performance you in a sierra you might as well fit the 24v as it'll bolt in with standard Ford bits.

Saab engines sound good but how heavy are they? how tall? how wide? if an engine is not in common usage by the race car fraternity there is usally a good reason for it.

[qwerty]

popuptoaster said:

robinxr4i said:

as long as the Type 9 held together

No Chance, the 24v melts them easily at 200lb/ft with a nice smooh torque curve, besides which if you want cheap cossie performance you in a sierra you might as well fit the 24v as it'll bolt in with standard Ford bits.

Saab engines sound good but how heavy are they? how tall? how wide? if an engine is not in common usage by the race car fraternity there is usally a good reason for it.

LOL knew when I saw your username the 24v Cossie would be mentioned LOL

Hmm true but in theory they sound like a good idea!

[penski]

Bolt up an MT75 or T5 box then?

*n

[Lewis]

MB V8s are also an untapped resource - all alloy 5.6-litre V8 for £100 tops!

I presume that's probably down to the sheer size of the damn things? A little like the Lexus V8s - quite wide engines at the best of times (s'what stops me fitting one, doesn't fit between the turrets...)

Again, probably the lack of a cheap/easy manual option that kills them off.

I don't think any Triumph people have done the Saab conversion, or I'm sure we'd have heard about it - Cosworth & Nissan turbos, yes - early Saab 99s had what is effectively the 1850 engine designed by Ricardo, though. I stand to be corrected though

[akku]

qwerty said:

Only the GM era post '94 apparently

ANd isn't that all just Ecotech Vauxhall stuff anyway?

[skamanfrank]

Now where's the pictures of the wide arched, roadster, mid saab-turbo engined imp gone?!

[burns]

alistairk said:

qwerty said:

Only the GM era post '94 apparently

ANd isn't that all just Ecotech Vauxhall stuff anyway?

I think it's the turbos ones that could be useful, eg a 2.3 turbo from a 9-5 putting out 250bhp. The guy from my old local autofactors was always saying this would be fun to try.

[qoute]Bolt up an MT75 or T5 box then?

*n[/qoute]

Bolt up to a manta box or a T5 with the aid of a bellhousing from SBD or somewhere similar.

[Robinxr4i]

penski said:

Bolt up an MT75 or T5 box then?

*n

MT75 doesn't have a seperate bellhouse its all one unit and the sierra T5 is expensive because of the "Cosworth" connection (although a mustang T5 might work too but the clutch are different of the mustang box iirc).

Although I have seen a couple of YB conversions using type-9 boxes, I guess they are either heavily uprated or go through boxes like know ones bussiness ;D

[dclane]

Mine's a '97 2.3 turbo lump that's putting out the Aero standard of 225hp.

When I was looking for it I came across a couple fs that had claimed outputs of 380 and 400hp but were just out of budget.

The weakness is the gearbox though - they just can't handle the power.

[Colonelk]

Not to be one for wanting to disbelieve, but why would saab spend money adjusting the casting on their own engines to mate with vauxhall gearboxes for the last few years they used their own design? Just seems a bit odd to me! But hey, stranger things have happened

[Robinxr4i]

popuptoaster said:

robinxr4i said:

as long as the Type 9 held together

No Chance, the 24v melts them easily at 200lb/ft with a nice smooh torque curve, besides which if you want cheap cossie performance you in a sierra you might as well fit the 24v as it'll bolt in with standard Ford bits.

Saab engines sound good but how heavy are they? how tall? how wide? if an engine is not in common usage by the race car fraternity there is usally a good reason for it.

Although a 24V Cosworth engine does appeal to me, I am a real turbo fan! After owning my 480 Turbo I expect every car I drive to get a surge of power just after 3000 rpm

I would rather have a 2.0 turbo with 200 bhp, than a 2.9 n/a with 200 bhp. I just like boost ;D plus if you want more power from a 24v cosworth its going to cost serious money, want more power from a 2.3 16v saab turbo tuning is much easier and cheaper to extract more power (just wind up the boost)