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Sept 14, 2017 18:15:35 GMT
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well.....here it is; www.gov.uk/government/upload...worthiness.pdf www.gov.uk/government/upload...e-guidance.pdf so it looks like cars over 40 yrs will also be MOT excempt , unless they have been substantionally altered, any changes made before 1988 will not be counted "Where the vehicle keeper is re-licensing their vehicle on-line it is intended that an additional question be asked whether the vehicle has a current MOT and the vehicle keeper will be required to declare that their vehicle has not been substantially changed since 1988. Appropriate safeguards will be in place that will prevent a vehicle keeper from declaring the vehicle is over 40 years of age and progressing to the next stage of the licensing process before first declaring or not as to whether their vehicle has been substantially changed." they also said no to limited millage on VHI's Particularly notable is this bit Radically altered vehicles should have registration plates with a “Q” prefix, but if a keeper considers they have such a vehicle with an original registration plate they should either test it or establish whether it is a radically altered vehicle. Where the vehicle keeper is re-licensing their vehicle on-line it is intended that an additional question be asked whether the vehicle has a current MOT and the vehicle keeper will be required to declare that their vehicle has not been substantially changed since 1988. Appropriate safeguards will be in place that will prevent a vehicle keeper from declaring the vehicle is over 40 years of age and progressing to the next stage of the licensing process before first declaring or not as to whether their vehicle has been substantially changed. The end of modifying as we know it?
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,144
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Sept 14, 2017 18:22:54 GMT
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Particularly notable is this bit Radically altered vehicles should have registration plates with a “Q” prefix, but if a keeper considers they have such a vehicle with an original registration plate they should either test it or establish whether it is a radically altered vehicle. Where the vehicle keeper is re-licensing their vehicle on-line it is intended that an additional question be asked whether the vehicle has a current MOT and the vehicle keeper will be required to declare that their vehicle has not been substantially changed since 1988. Appropriate safeguards will be in place that will prevent a vehicle keeper from declaring the vehicle is over 40 years of age and progressing to the next stage of the licensing process before first declaring or not as to whether their vehicle has been substantially changed. The end of modifying as we know it? Possibly, just glad my car was modified prior to 1988.
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Sept 14, 2017 18:42:29 GMT
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The end of modifying as we know it? Presumably they'll just use the existing framework (the 8-points system) to decide what is and isn't radically altered. So if your car is 40 years old and retains enough points to keep its identity, it gets historic status and tax / MOT exempt. If your car is radically altered (doesn't retain 8 points) it gets a BIVA test, Q-plate and has to be taxed and MOT'd every year. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me, or am I missing something?
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Last Edit: Sept 14, 2017 18:46:34 GMT by BenzBoy
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Sept 14, 2017 18:56:06 GMT
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Not so good as that unfortunately.
If over 30 years old and within 8 points then you still pay tax. It will not keep historic unless 100% std.
BIVA not a big deal? tell that to anyone with a curved screen - it's not possible to get IVA approved glass for curved screen cars. Also any dashboard pre 1970 on average will never pass IVA.
The big deal is that cars like mine will require IVA - OK fair enough, no change there then, but plenty of less modified cars will get caught up as well, and it's all retrospective!!
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Sept 14, 2017 19:04:10 GMT
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Not so good as that unfortunately. If over 30 years old and within 8 points then you still pay tax. It will not keep historic unless 100% std. BIVA not a big deal? tell that to anyone with a curved screen - it's not possible to get IVA approved glass for curved screen cars. Also any dashboard pre 1970 on average will never pass IVA. The big deal is that cars like mine will require IVA - OK fair enough, no change there then, but plenty of less modified cars will get caught up as well, and it's all retrospective!! But the BIVA test for cars not retaining 8 points has been around for ages. I wasn't suggesting the BIVA test isn't a big deal, only that only 100% standard historic vehicles will be MOT exempt. Nobody should have a problem with their car being MOT'd every year. I still don't get how this affects car modifying. We already know the perils of BIVA and what to do (and not to do) to avoid it. I don't get how this particular news changes any of that.
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Last Edit: Sept 14, 2017 19:05:56 GMT by BenzBoy
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Sept 14, 2017 19:58:25 GMT
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Well ,how many on here have fitted a new engine and had to cut a new hole in the trans tunnel for the gearstick? - BIVA required - ok, no one fesses up at present but the new regs will catch everyone.
The 15% power to weight increase over stock equalling radically modified might be a bit of an issue don't you think?
No issues with the MOT bit - it's just they have slammed the door firmly closed on every loophole for modifiying - se we will go forward virtually as the Europeans have it - ask them if they think it's ok?
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Sept 14, 2017 20:07:57 GMT
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Shortened version ...the changes mean that all modified vehicles will self identify shortly. The law comes in May 2018 and within 12 months they will have captured details of most modified vehicles . From May 2019 all they will do is send off V765/1 requests for info and photos which will sort 8 points compliant from those requiring BIVA.
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Sept 14, 2017 20:08:11 GMT
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As far as I can see, the only change is that pre-1977 will be MOT exempt if they are 100% standard. Engine transplants and probably even a carb & exhaust upgrade means it'll need an MOT. In fact I can see MOT-exempt cars eventually being subject to restrictions regarding their use, whereas they'll have more difficulty imposing restrictions on cars that have a mandatory MOT.
Of course, as ever, this could change in the future, but at the moment it's no big deal.
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1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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Sept 14, 2017 20:17:39 GMT
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The BIVA rules have always been there though - these MOT regs don't change that. Technically, yeah, if you cut a hole in the transmission tunnel it counts as a modification to the monocoque and requires BIVA. This has always been the case. I think that the DVSA are hoping that a little common sense is going to be applied when an individual judges what warrants an inspection. (I'm not expecting common sense from the DVSA here... ) The 15% increase in power to weight ratio seems very vague. Do they expect a dyno printout with every application for MOT exempt status? Are these dynos going to be calibrated in any official way? What if I remove the seats and other heavy items for my car, effectively increasing the power to weight ratio... does this count? This is typical wooly language from government jobsworths. I think this definitely needs clarification. Places like France and Spain have legislation requiring vehicles to conform to type approval, effectively outlawing any modification by making it impossible to get individual vehicles inspected. We have the IVA system in the UK, and this new bit of legislation doesn't change that. The situation in a lot of EU countries isn't very good for modified cars, but then they don't have a multi-million pound industry around modified vehicles, kit cars, hot rods and suchlike which you would hope would be a consideration for the government when looking at introducing legislation.
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Last Edit: Sept 14, 2017 20:19:03 GMT by BenzBoy
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Sept 14, 2017 21:13:11 GMT
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so does the 15% alone make it IVA and potentially a Q ? or will 8 points still apply ?
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retired with too many projects!
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sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
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Sept 14, 2017 21:27:51 GMT
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So my truck just became mot exempt but I now can't make any of the mods I was planning? Seems like a terrible deal.
What are the options going forward, just stay quiet and roll up to the mot centre?
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 14, 2017 22:10:37 GMT
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Personally I only see iffy outcomes from this deal bar people wanting to keep their cars at mega low mileages. Again, it seems that the obsession with low mileage cars is partly to blame here. I'm all for seeing classics on the road, the more the better. But not at the risk of safety. This will leave a few BL cars screwed ; have you tried getting good quality OE parts? vitesseefi will testify that! Effectively any car you plan to put alot of miles onto will be screwed under the new system, short of replacing many things very often. But then that won't matter without an MOT...
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Sept 14, 2017 22:26:27 GMT
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these are the proposed criteria for what defines "substantially changed" (source .gov website)
Criterion 1
If a vehicle has a power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design, unless such a modification took place before 1988
Criterion 2
If a vehicle:
Has been issued with a registration number with a ‘Q’ prefix;
or
is a kit car assembled from components from different makes and model of vehicle; or is a reconstructed classic vehicle as defined by DVLA guidance; or is a kit conversion, where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle, or old parts are added to a kit of a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell changing the general appearance of the vehicle.
is it the end of modifying, no. it just means you will have to have an MOT if you modify.
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Last Edit: Sept 14, 2017 22:27:28 GMT by darrenh
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sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
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Sept 14, 2017 22:27:44 GMT
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But if you have an mot will you be pushed to a q even if it's your choice to mot?
Also I assume you opt into this by having your car registered as historic? My car is already registered as historic so am I opted in for mot exempt already and does that mean I can't modify?
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Last Edit: Sept 14, 2017 22:39:57 GMT by sb
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Sept 15, 2017 0:22:46 GMT
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Well reading further down the DofT paperwork it states:
"While reconstructed classic vehicles and kit conversions can have age-related registration numbers that are more than forty years old, they are not VHIs. Radically altered vehicles should have registration plates with a "Q" prefix, but if a keeper considers they have such a vehicle with a original registration plate they should either test it or establish whether it is a radically altered vehicle."
"There are existing DVLA processes for registering reconstructed classic vehicles, kit conversions, and radically altered vehicles with the latter making use of the 8 point rule."
And on further reading it does state that when you re-licence your vehicle ( change from normal to historic ) after the date this is brought in you will have to declare whether or not it has been "substantially changed" since 1988, and you can bet if you click yes you will need to get the vehicle inspected and/or BIVA'd to continue using it ( meaning a "Q" plate MOT and road tax if you do not pass the test by the required points to keep your reg ) and it will probably end up being a criminal offence to lie on this question, and those vehicle owners that are already historic registered its all up in the air, but more than probably they will make you declare whether it "substantially changed" the next time you renew your road tax after the date this is all brought in.
The one thing that will catch a lot of people as others on here have stated is this 15% power to weight ratio stuff as with most of us have modified their vehicle in one way or another to get a bit more power out of it and it is easy to go over the percentage allowed, but as has been stated how are they going to enforce this. But as it stands there will no way around any of this with an older modified car as you will have to declare any modifications which affect any of the areas on the 8 points scoring to the DVLA to keep the vehicle on the road. But if the vehicle scores enough points or does not need the test but is tuned for more power ( more than 15% power to weight ratio ) it looks like all you need is a regular MOT every year I.E. same as usual, which is no bad thing as removing a regular MOT in my opinion is a very bad thing, as anybody can miss a fault on their vehicle.
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71 ford mustang being restored 71 triumph spitfire 3.5 v8 88 bmw e32 735 --SOLD--
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,937
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Sept 15, 2017 4:18:03 GMT
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So as that stands, my granada won't meet MOT exemption. Not a problem with that, as come 30-40year old rolling tax or mot exemption I would prefer to carry on paying vehicle excise duty and having a yearly test
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Sept 15, 2017 4:32:27 GMT
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Link appears removed...
I read this to stop old cars with new engines... mini with bike engines and e.type jags with fuel injection types... Surely government can not be thinking they are loosing out here...
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What,where, why.... It ain't broken... hold on....
now broken so rip it appart and fix it...
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Sept 15, 2017 7:24:27 GMT
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Why have you started a new thread for this?
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Sept 15, 2017 8:50:53 GMT
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BIVA not a big deal? tell that to anyone with a curved screen - it's not possible to get IVA approved glass for curved screen cars. Simply not true. This... ...has curved glass, passed an IVA, has an E43R marked windscreen. That's just one example from many I could give of curved glass screen cars with IVAs. Red Victor 3 is another one.
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Last Edit: Sept 15, 2017 9:11:41 GMT by VIP
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Sept 15, 2017 8:57:27 GMT
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But if you have an mot will you be pushed to a q even if it's your choice to mot? Also I assume you opt into this by having your car registered as historic? My car is already registered as historic so am I opted in for mot exempt already and does that mean I can't modify? If you're outside the 8-points then you have to have an IVA regardless. Every person modifying their car should already be assessing it against the Radically Altered Vehicle rules at that time anyway, and submitting the car for an IVA when it no longer complies, however many folks choose not to do this. The new Legislation is simply tightening up on this by including it in the MOT-exemption Regs.
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