HIDs and reflector headlights - has anyone converted?

[BenzBoy]

I'm looking to upgrade the quite abysmal candles at the front of my BMW e39. It's the early pre-facelift model with reflector headlights and H7 halogen bulbs.

One option is an HID Xenon kit. You can buy kits with a special bulb designed for reflector headlights, so in theory it should work. However when I try to find information about successfully doing this conversion every forum thread seems to descend into bickering and opinion (Pistonheads, I'm looking at you)

Another option is to upgrade to facelift e39 HID projector headlights but I'm not sure that they're a straight swap, and they fetch strong money on eBay and this is just my daily smoker so I'm reluctant to drop hundreds of pounds on the lights.

Has anyone done this conversion on their reflector headlights without turning their car into a mobile driver-dazzling nightmare?

[cobblers]

You'll have better luck with H7s than people do with H4s, but there's so many variables it's impossible to predict.

Have you seen the chinese drop-in projector units? You fit them inside your existing housing. They're supposedly fairly good

[BenzBoy]

Dec 18, 2017 20:13:07 GMT cobblers said:

Have you seen the chinese drop-in projector units? You fit them inside your existing housing. They're supposedly fairly good

I have not. I'll check them out, thanks!

[tristanh]

My e39 m5 has factory fit projector HID lamps, facelift model , and tbh they're not wonderful . And I have stripped and repaired all the broken adjusters so they are now properly focused , and fitted Osram nightbreaker headlight bulbs . My mk2 GTI has better lights, albeit with an uprated/relayed loom..

[ChasR]

If it were me I'd fit the HID bits from another E39. It's bound to have been done before too.

IIRC everything is similar bar where the wiring goes into the ballasts. When I next see my E46 I'll let you know. IIRC a main plug goes into the ballast and the rest is downstream of that, thus integral to the headlight.

As cobblers said H7s puts you in the right direction anyway. H7Rs are alot better than non R H7s but you may get a bit of glare. The bonus of this way is that it is cheaper. The downside is if it goes pop you'll need another kit ; the spares can be more than the kit itself!

This may make your mind up for you but my M3 cost £150 in HID bits last year. How? It all started from a bulb that wouldn't always turn on with a lovely tell-tale on the dash as follows:




So I did the following in this order:
-Spent £55 on new Osram OE bulbs with a lifetime warranty. It looks initially like I had fixed it over the summer months. Come winter it was worse than ever
-Spent another £50 on a secondhand but known working ballast : It didn't fix it.
-Months before the ballast I bought an ignitor unit for £50 from an M3 breaker. I thought it was the ignitor all along and sort of knew it. I didn't change it as I ended up taking the entire lamp apart:




-It then worked.

Is there a bonus to this? Yes?
-I now have a better idea of how and why they fail ; someone didn't put the headlight clip back on correctly which caused the ignitor to go iffy and arc.
-The job wasn't as bad as the forums made out.
-I do now have a working HID bulb and ballast to play it which should keep the plod happy. It's a shame however as my friend had many spares for them that I could have tried for free! Hindsight eh?

On the other end of the scale my friend had bulbs that wouldn't always turn on in his E46. His did just turn out to be bulbs in his defence . So it is swings and roundabouts .

[ChasR]

I'll leave with another note. Have you tried polishing the glass and going with new but good bulbs?

I say this as my Carina was pretty good at night with 3.75" lights but with GE bulbs. My Stag on the same lights but with el-cheapo bulbs that Robsport supplied were abysmal in comparison! I need telepathy to drive at night in that thing!

My sister's Saab also improved at night with Osram Nightbreakers ; I got them this time last year on an offer from ECP. If it were me I'd be tempted to give them a go. I'd go with a reputable source however; eBay seems to be rife with faulty stuff and fakes these days. Regarding the faulty stuff don't ask how I know. Let's just say I almost put a match to the M3 over the fiasco and with a online motor factor who IMHO should have known better, off eBay.

[BenzBoy]

Hmm, lots of good advice there, thanks! I did look at Osram Nightbreakers, but after reading a few reviews they seem to be a mixed bag. I intend to give my lenses a good polish as they are pretty aged, I'm sure that isn't helping matters. Perhaps I'll try that as a reasonably cheap fix - Halfords have a 2 for one deal on headlight bulbs going on at the moment so I'll see if I can snag a pair of Nightbreakers or the Philips ones to try.
My e36 also has appalling headlights. It seems to be a 90s BMW thing. People joke about them not fitting indicators but I think they skipped the headlights too.

[mercedeslimos]

I fitted a pair to my current cheapy daily driver B7 A4. Cue being pulled by the coppers for being too dazzling. I've always had them for years now in projector lamps and never had a problem and the one time I fitted them to a reflector housing I got pulled. Not worth the hassle. They were very bright, great for me driving but not for oncoming traffic. If you're up to opening up the lenses there is another option which I've just built a set of lamps for one of my toys a 240bhp diesel B6 Passat

[Mantasport]

I have fitted HID's to quite a lot of cars now and can offer some observations.

H7 HID's work very well (as do H1's) as the fillament in the bulb is in the same place as a normal halogen lamp which the reflector is designed to use. The issue with H4 bulbs is the HID version has the light coming from further along the bulb (as its a longer unit) but this moves the light source out of the dip position slightly towards the high beam position within the lamps reflector. The bulb is then moved forwards (by electro magnets) to simulate the full beam part of the bulb lighting up (which is the forward filament on a H4 bulb normally) but as its all a little longer this goes a bit too far and reduces the full beam effect. This can be a problem with some reflector headlights as it moves the light source out of the correct position for the light output to be focused which leads to a dazzling effect for other road users. This doesn't always happen as it depends on the design of the reflector and the tollerance to exactly where the optimum position for the light source is. It can also be affected by the aim of the lamps themsleves. Some H4 HID bulbs are better than others for this as they have been designed to the right length for the fillament position.

I have just fitted H7's to my 02 passat daily and the difference is amazing, i can now see the road at night. My lamp lenses are slightly milky (which i must get around to buffing) and i'm sure this wasn't helping the light output but the HID's blast straight through it with no issues at all.

I buy all my kits from the same eBay seller, and while i am sure they are built in china i have never had an issue with a set (think i'm up to around 11 sets fitted now) he also stocks replacement parts at a very cheap price in case you want to have some spares in stock, or if for any reason you need some at any point. He's also been selling them for years now (i got my first set from him 6 years ago or so.

In case anyone interested these are the H7's  www.ebay.co.uk/itm//251295894228 ignore the fact they are listed for a particular car, he lists the same bulb kit for multiple cars to get more hits from people searching stuff for their own car model. Its worth looking through all his listings for the same kits as some are cheaper than others for some reason.

[ChasR]

FWIW the difference new bulbs made to my E46 was staggering. They have zero glare and I can see for quite a while away! It's something I'm getting used to in the Mercedes, but they are not terrible in their defence.

I suspect half of the bad reviews for the Nightbreakers are possibly due to people getting them from questionable sources like the vendors on eBay. But of course even going away from there is no guarantee that you'll get the right product.

You can get a set of Nightbreakers direct from Osram on Amazon for £15 delivered. Do you have a trade card at all?

[droopsnoot]

I recall seeing an episode of "Fake Britain" a few weeks ago where they were raiding places selling fake headlamp bulbs, I think this is the programme - www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09gw1xm - I haven't watched it but I think one of the ones they tested caught fire. I recall a chap from Osram on there, commenting about how convincing the fake packaging was. So picking a decent source is important.

I'm not sure what I think about home HID conversions, bearing in mind the requirement for self-levelling, and knowing that when the self levellers fail on my car (which has HID as standard) the headlamps go into a safe mode that drops the beam to about a foot in front of the car. There must be a reason for that, and I suspect the levelling side of it is where most of the internet bickering comes from. I do see a lot of very dazzling oncoming vehicles, but I'd hazard a guess that more of them are modern cars which just have brighter lamps, or SUV / 4x4 things that are higher up to start with, probably only a very small percentage (if any at all) are cars where someone has retro-fitted HIDs.

I've not been that impressed by the lights on my modern, but then it's 17 years old now and on original bulbs. Maybe it's time to get some replacements especially as they're not anywhere near as expensive as they used to be.

[rude]

The E36 headlamps were curse word and worsening so I got some 'bought in error' Nightbreakers for £6 off of a nice chap and they pick up the road a lot better, making full use of cats eyes (where fitted). They do not emit emergency services blue, no blue at all but I want to knock the aim up a touch and I reckon they'll be better. Short life on these bulbs though which is one thing I forgot to check, but for £6 I'm not bothered... at least I can see at night- which appears to be all the time at the moment!
When in the thick of it I find that I say to myself 'This is is a joke, I actually can't see the road' a lot less now, but it still happens.
I passed 2 particular cars this morning with modern HID type lights on... both were in a field after colliding and running off of the A14. No matter how bright your lights are, they are only as bright as the driver behind them. (See what I did there?)

[mk2cossie]

Dec 19, 2017 10:50:45 GMT droopsnoot said:

I recall seeing an episode of "Fake Britain" a few weeks ago where they were raiding places selling fake headlamp bulbs, I think this is the programme - www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09gw1xm - I haven't watched it but I think one of the ones they tested caught fire. I recall a chap from Osram on there, commenting about how convincing the fake packaging was. So picking a decent source is important.

I'm not sure what I think about home HID conversions, bearing in mind the requirement for self-levelling, and knowing that when the self levellers fail on my car (which has HID as standard) the headlamps go into a safe mode that drops the beam to about a foot in front of the car. There must be a reason for that, and I suspect the levelling side of it is where most of the internet bickering comes from. I do see a lot of very dazzling oncoming vehicles, but I'd hazard a guess that more of them are modern cars which just have brighter lamps, or SUV / 4x4 things that are higher up to start with, probably only a very small percentage (if any at all) are cars where someone has retro-fitted HIDs.

I've not been that impressed by the lights on my modern, but then it's 17 years old now and on original bulbs. Maybe it's time to get some replacements especially as they're not anywhere near as expensive as they used to be.

The self levelling and washers isn't a requirement for HID lights, only if fitted it must work for MOT. Think this was due to a couple of manufacturers having cars equipped with HIDs and still using the interior level adjuster.

As said above, most H4 bulb headlamps aren't very good for the kits due to replacing 2 separate fixed point filaments in 1 bulb to 1 filament that is moved about by a solenoid.

From the driving about at night I've done and been on the recieving end of the herberts with Fiestas or Corsas with HID kits, they do scatter the light.
I cant imagine how the cars are to drive with the horrid blueish light that isn't focused

The Granny was upgraded with Osram silver star bulbs many years ago, still going strong before the bodywork progress and an amazing amount of light from ancient headlamp units that have had the wiring pins renewed (and the reflector surrounds blacked out)

[tristanh]

A mate took a punt on LED conversion bulbs for the headlights on his Audi S2 recently, lights were woeful before, acceptable now.

[mk2cossie]

That's possibly what I would upgrade to on mine, the only concern is the light colour on most HID or LED kits is almost always 7000k

I think the light scatter effect would be lessened if they were more like normal halogen bulbs in colour

and the LED kits are pretty much plug and play with integrated ballasts and head sinks too

[BenzBoy]

I hadn't considered LEDs, I didn't realise they'd got so cheap!

My main concern with HID and LEDs is dazzling oncoming traffic. I suppose if I use the correct conversion kit, this shouldn't be an issue though.

My first step is to polish the lenses as they are very cloudy, so that's going to help matters whatever I choose to do afterwards.

[rude]

I've been reading a little bit on these LED's. It could be argued that although they are more intense which is great for short range stuff quality Halogens appear to throw the light further. I'm not keen on moving the heat source around either plus the blinding of other drivers bothers me.

[Mantasport]

I always use 4300k bulbs in the hid kits i fit, don't want any blue/purple tints to them.

Couple of years back we fitted LED bulbs to a mates car for his full beam (he has HID dip) and while they are very bright to look at they did not throw the light anywhere near as far as standard halogen bulbs. They weren't the cheap chinese ones available back then either, they came from the USA i think and had little elctric fans on a heat sink at the back of tha bulbs. But don't know how much the LED bulb technology has improved since then

[welshpug]

that was my experience with them in my E34, nice clear light and good pattern, but nowhere near as good as a half decent halfords halogen/xenon bulb.

giving them a damn good clean is the best thing you can do, and making sure they're pointing in the right direction.

[BenzBoy]

Well, I gave my lenses a polish the yesterday. They weren't terrible but they look better now... I also found that I have projectors and HB4 bulbs. I think these were fitted from a later car although there seems to be conflicting information on what lights early e39s came with. (I know, I should have looked closer and not relied on the internet!)

Anyway, it does mean I can fit Xenons or LEDs without risking blinding oncoming traffic, which is a plus.