E39s, Retro in waiting or already there?

[astranaut]

Ending the year back in my old e39 520i, due to my Vectra B immobilising itself at any given moment (including whilst doing 70), so as I need total reliability for work I've bought it back off my grandad, and really wondering why I sold it in the first place. Hard to believe it's A. 18 years old and B. Has near on 200k on it, it drives faultlessly and silently. Are these considered retro already or are they still toeing the line?

Already bought some new wheels for it in 17x8j Style 42 flavour as I hate with a passion the turbines (they also have completely the wrong size tyres fitted so look lost in the arches), and a set of clear side repeaters as one of mine has been glued back together with what appears to be Pritt Stick, what other mods can people recommend for these? It's absolutely boggo basic, blue cloth interior, no on board computer, no steering wheel controls, nothing

All thoughts and opinions welcome, I'll leave a pic of mine as it is atm with you.

[tristanh]

Mine is a 02 M, and I'd consider it just wandering into retrofication. More so because the first of them are over 20 years old now.

[lufbramatt]

Certain models are starting to go up in price, m5, the alpines, very clean 540i’s and 530i’s.

They are fantastic cars if you get a good one, shame they rot in certain places. Easy to work on though and parts easy to find. Been running a 530i sport for the last 3 years and apart from a couple of little oil leaks it’s been totally reliable.

[strikey]

know nothing about them other than having always thought them a handsomely proportioned automobile of deceptively simple design....just what a good bee-em should be!

[joem83]

I've wanted a e39 since they came out, apart from rear arches, plinth below boot lid, and front end of sills, where else do they rot?

[rattlecan]

I’ve owned one, had it about 8 yrs, from it being about 18 month old & it was a great car, never broke down, went well, mega comfy, did everything you could ask, but wow was it boring. It was this strange thing where it just did everything so well that it makes it a bit hum drum.
There’s always this bone of contention about when something becomes a classic/retro or whatever, isn’t there?
It’s mentioned quite a bit in classic mags etc, but to me in this case atm, this is just ‘an old motor’. Loads of ‘em around, not particularly desirable, but maybe in 20 yrs who knows

[BenzBoy]

I have an e39 525TDS Touring as my daily. It was probably the worst example of one that could be found - every service part needed, every panel dented, rotten tailgate... dreadful. But I got it for next to nothing so I couldn't complain too much. After some hard graft it's now not quite so horrible and serves as my day to day transport.
They are really well put together, and some consider it the last "proper" well-built BMW (although those sorts of benchmarks seems to move as time progresses and the rose-tinted glasses come on). They are fairly complicated beasts electrically but the thing has definitely grown on me.
M5 is well on its way to modern classic status, and rightly so.

[surprisingskoda]

Jan 1, 2018 8:48:14 GMT joem83 said:

I've wanted a e39 since they came out, apart from rear arches, plinth below boot lid, and front end of sills, where else do they rot?

The arches don't usually rot if they've been accident damaged. The front wings sometimes rot around the lips from the inside out, but they are easily replaced, and the bootlid is a common point also. They are on the whole very rust-free, so if you do ever look for one and find a rusty example, just walk away, it's definitely not worth fixing when there are so many good ones available.

I think the E39 is a superb car. Most of the engine choices are reliable old plants and can for the size be acceptably economical. They have the comfort of any big car from the 90s but also the tech of the early 00s, and the luxury of any big BMW. All good things in my eyes. Not great tow-cars and not quite enough boot space sometimes, but still attractive, still well catered for in parts supply, still a good drive and still reliable and comfortable. They are, in my view, the very best daily car one can buy, of anything, anywhere, to date.

But definitely a modern. Retro is not just about what year they were made, it's about a style and a character. The E39s character certainly isn't about being old-skool. Not that this is my personal definition, but imagine this: If a double din stereo / TV screen unit would be completely inappropriate in a car, it's retro. Those are common upgrades to an E39 and it's not odd. In an E36, also made around 1995/6/7/8, it would be very odd. Therefore, retro.

[mashedpot8er]

Despite having this thread:

forum.retro-rides.org/thread/193175/bmw-e39-528i-sounds-spanners?page=1&scrollTo=2255619

I love my E39. Its a manual 1998 528i se in Oxford Green, been driving it for a bit now and still can't get over how smooth and quiet it is to drive. Previous cars were a Corsa B and an old Honda civic though.

I'm not sure if I'd count it as retro or not really. As a '98 it's the newest car I've ever owned, so I've got a skewed point of view. When I look at newer 5 series beemers on the road it does seem comparitivly quite old though, so maybe it is retro now, but with youthful looks.

[tristanh]

Jan 1, 2018 9:59:46 GMT rattlecan said:

I’ve owned one, had it about 8 yrs, from it being about 18 month old & it was a great car, never broke down, went well, mega comfy, did everything you could ask, but wow was it boring. It was this strange thing where it just did everything so well that it makes it a bit hum drum.
There’s always this bone of contention about when something becomes a classic/retro or whatever, isn’t there?
It’s mentioned quite a bit in classic mags etc, but to me in this case atm, this is just ‘an old motor’. Loads of ‘em around, not particularly desirable, but maybe in 20 yrs who knows

I'm guessing yours wasn't an M or v8?

[MiniDan]

Jan 1, 2018 14:53:39 GMT BenzBoy said:

They are really well put together, and some consider it the last "proper" well-built BMW

A few mechanics have said this in the past to me on the basis of the money men getting more involved.

One example (from what I’ve been told, I can’t verify) is the water pumps were still metal at this point. The next updates of the BMW range (the E60 in the 5 series) changed to a plastic impeller and caused problems disintegrating.

A similar story with Mercedes. You can’t make money on parts if the cars are bullet-proof.

[ChasR]

Jan 1, 2018 9:59:46 GMT rattlecan said:

I’ve owned one, had it about 8 yrs, from it being about 18 month old & it was a great car, never broke down, went well, mega comfy, did everything you could ask, but wow was it boring. It was this strange thing where it just did everything so well that it makes it a bit hum drum.
There’s always this bone of contention about when something becomes a classic/retro or whatever, isn’t there?
It’s mentioned quite a bit in classic mags etc, but to me in this case atm, this is just ‘an old motor’. Loads of ‘em around, not particularly desirable, but maybe in 20 yrs who knows

I know of a few unreliable 5s. Christ, I wish my M was less taxing on the wallet! Some would say you were lucky!

But that said I felt the same way about my E36 323i. On paper it looked amazing. But God I never gelled with that car. The E46 that replaced the E36 was a nicer car in many ways IMHO and was the Porsche 968 to it as the E36 was the 944 if that makes any sense.

Jan 2, 2018 1:33:26 GMT MiniDan said:

Jan 1, 2018 14:53:39 GMT BenzBoy said:

They are really well put together, and some consider it the last "proper" well-built BMW

A few mechanics have said this in the past to me on the basis of the money men getting more involved.

One example (from what I’ve been told, I can’t verify) is the water pumps were still metal at this point. The next updates of the BMW range (the E60 in the 5 series) changed to a plastic impeller and caused problems disintegrating.

A similar story with Mercedes. You can’t make money on parts if the cars are bullet-proof.

Plastic pumps can and do big miles. Both have pros and cons despite what the forums have you believe. I've done 300k on plastic pumps ; it's all down to the correct maintenance.

As for retro that depends. If you asked a few years ago they've have said anything retro shouldn't have EFI. But they weren't aware that EFI was far for a 'modern' thing ; The Citroen DS, Porsche 914 and Jaguar XJS all had these. Double DINs also aren't a new thing either despite what people have you believe.

I look at it like this. Back in the 90s the Jensen Interceptor was considered a retro and were a similar age back then. Dollies were also firmly in those stakes. The fact is things have taken a different turn. You can't really compare an E39 to a new car ; most Fiestas will have the same if not more equipment in them; even a 5 year old car can now park itself and have stop/start etc.. Back to the stereo thing you can put a retro HU easily into an E39 but I doubt you could on a modern BMW or many new cars now ; it's one reason why the aftermarket is suffering now.

I'm going to say the E39 is in the transition stage now and probably the stage where the pre-70s to 90s cars were barely a decade ago ; They are beginning to get more of a following but there are still quite a few around. But their value to keep them vs. their value is what will bring around their demise further.

[dude]

I've had a few different bmw's, and e39's are probably the most boring ones..
But if you look at the era they were built in there wasn't exactly many legendary cars made, and they are a much better option than the competition imho. As long as the electrics are working at least


They do look good lowered over som nice wheels with some M-parts thrown on too.





But i much prefer the e38. Its practically the same car, but with a coke dealer reputation instead of a soccer mom one

[tdk]

Mine was pretty good, 528 manual, but so competent and modern that it's a long way from classic status. It's predecessor, the E34, can still be had for peanauts and that's considerable more charming.

I followed mine with an E46, 330ci, which some rave about but I founds to be really very dull. Too modern.

Each to their own, though!

[BenzBoy]

I think because the e39 lasted until 2004 it looks a bit more contemporary and, to my mind at least, is a car of the early 2000s rather than a 90s car. In years to come when many have been scrapped or otherwise died, they'll become a bit more appreciated and not just a "fairly old car". In my opinion its predecessor the e34 is only just emerging from the "old car" category and is being considered a modern classic (the regulsr models anyway. e34 M5s have been collectible for many years)

I agree the e38 7 series is an absolute gem of a car, I traveled to Le Mans in one and it was just a beautifully engineered luxury car. BMW at this time were on top form and building better cars than their competitors at Mercedes in my opinion.

[dude]

Jan 2, 2018 11:35:19 GMT BenzBoy said:

I agree the e38 7 series is an absolute gem of a car, I traveled to Le Mans in one and it was just a beautifully engineered luxury car. BMW at this time were on top form and building better cars than their competitors at Mercedes in my opinion.

And with dirt cheap parts as most suspension and driveline stuff is e39.
The only car i regret selling was my black and black e38, which is saying a bit after somewhere around 20-30 cars.

[rattlecan]

Jan 2, 2018 1:15:42 GMT tristanh said:

Jan 1, 2018 9:59:46 GMT rattlecan said:

I’ve owned one, had it about 8 yrs, from it being about 18 month old & it was a great car, never broke down, went well, mega comfy, did everything you could ask, but wow was it boring. It was this strange thing where it just did everything so well that it makes it a bit hum drum.
There’s always this bone of contention about when something becomes a classic/retro or whatever, isn’t there?
It’s mentioned quite a bit in classic mags etc, but to me in this case atm, this is just ‘an old motor’. Loads of ‘em around, not particularly desirable, but maybe in 20 yrs who knows

I'm guessing yours wasn't an M or v8?

530D

[Battenberg]

Throw up a thread as it seems they have a following, I've been looking at Touring's recently as my other Bimmer will only seat two and the Rangey I'm not gelling with anymore. Personally I don't think they are Retro but they are desirable to a few who will look after them to the point you get that "I haven't seen one of those for a while" in the petrol station and then we all want one.

I remember driving my Dads new 525i SE E34 in 1992 and thinking it quite mundane, now they are like Hen's teeth trying to find a minter!

[Woofwoof]

I think the E39 is not there yet as a 'retro' car. The styling still looks reasonably modern imo, kudos to BMW for that. Regardless they are a darn good car.

[njw]

I've had four e39's so maybe slightly biased but anyone who thinks they are boring should try giving a v8 the beans in second off a roundabout (I'll lend you mine if you want). Also, I've always wondered how BMW got a car the size it is, and the weight it is to handle like it does too.

That said, if I'm just plodding about it's definitely not the most exciting thing. I think the reason some find them a bit boring is because they are so good at everything owning one becomes uneventful.