Dynamator fitted, charge light still on

[pardonthewait]

Hello,

The dynamo on my Super Minx wasn't providing a full charge so I've changed it for a Dynamator alternator.

Instructions are pretty vague but I've done what I think is correct, but the charge warning light on my dash is still on, even after a drive around.

I've run a new 50amp cable from the large connector on the Dynamator to my positive battery terminal.

I've taken the ignition warning light wire that goes to the voltage regulator, extended it, and connected it to the smaller connector on the Dynamator instead.

The car starts, runs, drives fine. When I put the ignition on, I get the red ignition light, the orange charge warning light, and when I start the car the ignition light goes out but the charge light stays on.

Any ideas what the issue could be? Do I have to do anything more with the voltage regulator? I gather you can just leave it where it is, is that correct?

Is it the ignition light that's supposed to be connected? I'm 99% sure it is.

Any help much appreciated

Edit: Here's the instructions I got: www.accuspark.co.uk/InstructionsPDF/Dynamator%20Negative%20Earth%20Instructions.pdf

I did as they say - took the wire that was connected to 'WL' and connected it to the small connector on the Dynamator instead. Where the diagram has no wires at all connected to the voltage regulator, are the wires currently connected to it ok to stay or should I unplug them all and cover them? Sorry for all the questions! Just a bit confused as to how to remedy it.

[nomad]

Hi, I can't picture the dash on your car, but I'm puzzled why you have 2 "ignition-type" lights ? (could the red one be oil pressure, so it's just the orange "charge" light not working ?)

When I replaced a dynamo with an alternator, I left the earth wire connected to the control box and pulled the other (4) off the box, then :
joined the 2 big thick wires together ( you have run a new cable to do the same job, which is fine)
joined the 2 thin wire together (this is the bit that makes the warning light work)

There are folk who have / had SuperMinx ( retrolegends pardonthewait  ) maybe they can suggest something...

[pardonthewait]

Sorry you're right, don't know why I had myself thinking there were two lights. Red is oil pressure I think. The old manual I have has all four warning lights in a different order including ignition/oil pressure, but as far as I've been able to tell orange is ignition and red is oil pressure. The orange light, when I had the dynamo on, would flicker and go out at higher revs, so I'm certain it's the ignition lamp.

I've seen mention somewhere, possibly here, that a guy needed to fit a smaller pulley in order to get the alternator going fast enough to charge, but outside of that I'm unsure what I've done wrong as I'm reasonably sure I've got it wired up right. I will disconnect the other leads from the voltage regulator tonight and see if it makes any difference.

[andyborris]

Is the connector marked E on the control box connected to Earth, you don't say which type of control box you have, the RB106 needs an earth wire adding, while the RB340 is already earthed.

[Dez]

If you've changed an external regular Dynamo to an internal regulator alternator ( I guess it'll be internal reg?) you'll need to bypass the old regulator for it to work properly. This is usually just joining a few wires together as they tended to use them as junction boxes as well.

[pardonthewait]

It's an RB340 regulator and has a short earth lead to the body connected.

Dez when you say bypass it, are we talking just disconnect the wires, or disconnect them and join relevant ones together?

Thanks guys

[retrolegends]

Not a lot of help to you tbh as mine still had the Dynamo, the red is definitely oil pressure though. Keep us posted.

[kevins]

When you fit an alternator you need to join all the large power cables at the control box together (typically dynamo, battery and ignition switch) then the wire from the warning light goes to what was the field wire (thin wire) on the dynamo or in your case it sounds like you have replaced the later. If you have an high output alternator it is wise to run an additional heavy cable directly from the alternator to the battery +.

[pardonthewait]

Jan 11, 2018 16:06:43 GMT kevins said:

When you fit an alternator you need to join all the large power cables at the control box together (typically dynamo, battery and ignition switch) then the wire from the warning light goes to what was the field wire (thin wire) on the dynamo or in your case it sounds like you have replaced the later. If you have an high output alternator it is wise to run an additional heavy cable directly from the alternator to the battery +.

Jan 11, 2018 9:53:05 GMT Dez said:

If you've changed an external regular Dynamo to an internal regulator alternator ( I guess it'll be internal reg?) you'll need to bypass the old regulator for it to work properly. This is usually just joining a few wires together as they tended to use them as junction boxes as well.

I think I might have the right idea now from this information.... I found some info on dummy control boxes and while I don't plan on buying one for the looks. But it's made me think that the only thing missing is the two B+ wires from the control box, now don't go anywhere - am I right in thinking that these need to be connected to the output from the new alternator now? I think they are the only thing that's missing, and if I connect them up but still have the additional heavy duty cable from alternator to battery, the load won't be an issue?

That would mean all the wires that originally went into the regulator now actually go somewhere right? I feel like this is what the (£45!) dummy regulators accomplish? Here's the instructions for a dummy regulator I found:

www.ccw-tools.com/uploads/Media/16548.pdf

Sorry if these are silly questions but electrics of all types are a bit beyond me, especially when everything's hidden in wire wraps and disappearing in and out of things like on a car.

I guess if all this works, I can remove the innards from the control box and run it all through there (and add a fuse) for neatness.

[Dez]

Yeah what kevins says is right. The two 'little' wires usually connect together (field and warning light), and if you've already put a big new wire from the new alt to the battery, just connect the B+ wires to the battery terminal so you use that as the 'junction' instead, then do away with the old regulator/control box.

You could add a fuse inline if you wanted but it's not really necessary if everything is in good order. Most cars were wired with infused 'hot' electrical systems for years with little issue.

[pardonthewait]

Ok then, I will try that tomorrow evening. I assume I can attach the new heavy duty cable and the original cable together to the same spade to achieve that right?

Thanks all for your help, hopefully can get it sorted.

[Dez]

I've just re-read what you've written, and the immediate question that springs to mind is where is the car drawing its power from for the ignition switch, fuse box etc. if the b+ wires from the regulator aren't connected to anything other than a regulator that no longer has a power feed to it?

As I understand it your new alternator is fed directly to the battery, yes? Nowhere else?

Does the car have a separate starter motor solenoid that could be acting as a junction box? Or does one of the two B+ wires on the regulator come from the battery then the other go back into the car?

[pardonthewait]

Jan 11, 2018 22:47:51 GMT Dez said:

I've just re-read what you've written, and the immediate question that springs to mind is where is the car drawing its power from for the ignition switch, fuse box etc. if the b+ wires from the regulator aren't connected to anything other than a regulator that no longer has a power feed to it?

As I understand it your new alternator is fed directly to the battery, yes? Nowhere else?

Does the car have a separate starter motor solenoid that could be acting as a junction box? Or does one of the two B+ wires on the regulator come from the battery then the other go back into the car?

Yes it does have a solenoid down next to the battery. All the instructions that came with the dynamator said is ditch the regulator, and connect the ignition light to the field connector on the dynamator.

Currently yes the new cable goes directly to the positive terminal on the battery.

Super lost now!

I have no idea where the two B+ wires go apart from into the harness. I'll have a look on the wiring diagram now.

[pardonthewait]

The only wiring diagram I've got on hand is for a MK4 not a MK3 like mine is, but it looks like one of the B+ goes to the starter solenoid switch, and one goes to the fuse block, then from there to the ignition switch and the light switch.

[Dez]

Pull one of the two B+ wires off the regulator whilst it's running. If it totally dies electrically (my money is on it doing so) the regulator is acting as a junction box for them. It was quite common for british cars to be wired this way. The other way does basically the same thing but uses the starter motor solenoid as the junction instead.

one will go to the battery and the other into the loom and ultimately to the ign. Switch and fuse box. You'll then be able to trim them back and join them straight through from battery to ign switch to simplify the wiring. Doesnt explain why the charge light isn't going out, but I'd do that first anyway to eliminate it as a possibility before moving onto other things.

[pardonthewait]

Jan 11, 2018 23:04:15 GMT Dez said:

Pull one of the two B+ wires off the regulator whilst it's running. If it totally dies electrically (my money is on it doing so) the regulator is acting as a junction box for them. It was quite common for british cars to be wired this way. The other way does basically the same thing but uses the starter motor solenoid as the junction instead.

one will go to the battery and the other into the loom and ultimately to the ign. Switch and fuse box. You'll then be able to trim them back and join them straight through from battery to ign switch to simplify the wiring. Doesnt explain why the charge light isn't going out, but I'd do that first anyway to eliminate it as a possibility before moving onto other things.

Sorry to sound dense but can you explain what you mean when you say join them straight through from battery to ignition switch?

I'll give all of this a try tomorrow after work

[Dez]

If you don't really understand electrics, it's easiest to view it as a plumbing system to get your head round it. The alternator is your mains supply, as long as the engine is running. The battery is your header tank in the loft. Wires are pipes. The water is your electricity. Switches are taps, sort of.

You need to have flow(directly or indirectly) from your header tank to the tap for something to happen when you turn it on. So for there to be power at the ignition switch when you turn it on, the ignition switch has to somehow have continuity to the battery. At the minute it seems to go through Other 'hot' (permanently live) components to get there. If you cut those components out the circuit for the Minute and connect the wire that runs into the loom and to the switch directly to the battery which is connected directly to the alternator, you know the 'flow' is there. There could be other reasons your charging light isn't going out (they can be wired differently) but for starters id ensure your main feeds are definately correct before moving onto that.

[pardonthewait]

I think I'm getting the gist.. I think! Will let you know how I get on, thanks

[pardonthewait]

I think I'm getting there. I connected the two B+ leads to the alternator, and had no difference. However I've removed completely the voltage regulator now, and connected the warning light and the wire that did go to the field connector, and it now flickers when the car is at higher revs.

It's all a slight mess because I originally connected the wiring light directly the alternator as per the instructions and I've now followed the advice given and connected the voltage regulator wires together. I think I need to undo the wrap and try and get a better idea of the wiring because I'm 99% sure some of this wiring is now doubled up.

However the fact that the light is actually flickering now surely must be a good sign?

I don't know if this just means it's not spinning fast enough and possibly I need a smaller pulley or something.

[nomad]

My Hunter was converted to alternator before I got it, the ign light stays on until I get the revs up (20mph ?) then it stays off for the rest of the journey.
To check the system is charging connect a cheap multimeter inside the car (to the cigarette lighter ?).
Expect below 11 volts if parked overnight - rising to over 13 volts when on a longer drive