Copyright of car wording

[ratmangta]

Bit of a long tale leading up to this but the basic path was this...

I ordered and paid for a big brake kit for a customer's Renault A610. After some 18 months with still no complete kit we'd had enough so sent the kit back, received a full refund and I then had a kit developed myself from my mates already existing proto unit.
The caliper supplier was the same but we made our own brackets, bells and used different rotors. We commissioned new original artwork based on the decal on the A610 rear windows. Job done.



Then a few months later the caliper supplier informed us that the previous supplier had said it wasn't on and they couldn't use the artwork we had had made on my calipers..It was his copyright or rather he was going to apply for it..
I then discovered that he had in fact applied for copyright using the logo direct from the original decal on the cars from the 90's. I put in a std notice of intent to dispute but TBH didn't take it any further as to do that would cost a fair bit and I have better things to waste my hard earned on.
The copyright has now been granted however. I assume they don't look too closely if no objection?

trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003293816

So ...the copyright is on Renault's original artwork. This is exactly what appears in size and font on the rear glass.

What do the collective think ?
Any copyright lawyers in the house? I think he's not got a leg to stand on despite having the copyright granted as it was ripped off direct from the one on the car.

[procrastinator]

I think your answer might be on the link. Copyright has to be renewed in 10 years. Maybe original maker didnt bother as it is quite a while ago it would be new.

[ratmangta]

Yes and maybe it was never copyright in the first place but this application was after the fact. I already had the artwork before application was made + it is not in the original form.

[duggers]

I'm no lawyer but if you can prove that you had the decals done based on the Renault original and prior to his 'copyright', unless Renault had it copyrighted at the time I don't think the 'owner' can retrospectively claim a breach.

It would appear he has registered a trade mark rather than copyright so owns the intellectual property. I wonder if Renault are aware, just in case they wish to produce a new A610Turbo ?

www.gov.uk/using-somebody-elses-intellectual-property

[daklone]

I would say that you might have had a case for an objection if you could've proven that the logo was your intellectual property (IP) and that you owned it, even if it was not trade marked.

You would need to clarify what exactly happened when the image was created. When you say "commissioned", what did you actually have in writing regarding the generation of said artwork and who would own the IP of the resulting image?

If, for instance, you asked someone to create an image for which you paid them and the contract stated that the IP of the image would rest with you then you in effect "own" it. Otherwise, the IP almost certainly rests with the private individual who created the image, unless they work for a company and did it in the course of their work, in which case it rests with that company.

If Renault did have this logo registered as a trade mark in the UK then I would be surprised if it were "missed". More likely they never bothered to trade mark it or renew it when it lapsed.

In summary, I would say that there's nothing you can do about it now sadly...except hire a specialist IP lawyer and kiss goodbye to £££££'s

[Deleted]

I can't speak with any expertise on copyright law, but I don't think they have much to defend. The letters/numbers themselves are a Renault designation so he can't own them. Unless the company has developed a bespoke typeface that's a Renault bespoke typeface (possibly designed by Roger Excoffon) so he can't own the letterforms, even if Renault no longer own it.

So whilst he may have managed to copyright a Renault product designation in a Renault typeface, he must prove precedent to enforce his copyright. Ie he has to show a history of owning it as a trademark that precedes you using it. It can't very easily be back dated.

[daklone]

Apparently the OP can apply to have the trade mark invalidated.

Because the trade mark was registered after 01/10/07, the OP can't ask for it to be revoked because it belongs to Renault as they would have to apply themselves. He could, however, apply on his own behalf although it would still depend on the OP's arrangement with the person or company that actually did the work.

Just to clarify, copyright is not the correct legal protection for a logo or phrase such as this, it is a trade mark. Contrast copyright as defined by .gov.

[mylittletony]

I'd be surprised if Renault don't have anything to say about that...

A chap who was reproducing good quality Volvo decals (and custom ones) was recently served a "cease and desist"

[ratmangta]

Cheers for the replies ...I'm not going to waste £200 and the time atm.
It's such a tiny market that I doubt I'll even sell another set. The caliper manufacturer created a programme to engrave the 'logo' from artwork we supplied.
It's just this guy being a dick because I had another kit made after he basically fecked us about for 18 months...There is still no other caliper kit for the A610 apart from the one he supplied which was not complete and untested...

[mylittletony]

Aug 6, 2018 8:25:40 GMT ratmangta said:

Cheers for the replies ...I'm not going to waste £200 and the time atm.
It's such a tiny market that I doubt I'll even sell another set. The caliper manufacturer created a programme to engrave the 'logo' from artwork we supplied.
It's just this guy being a dick because I had another kit made after he basically fecked us about for 18 months...There is still no other caliper kit for the A610 apart from the one he supplied which was not complete and untested...

You should at least insist the caliper company don't use your artwork.

You could always market your kit aggressively, minus the logos on the calipers?

I noticed his address is on the trademark and therefore in the public domain, that might leave him open to a deluge of spam mail...

[daklone]

If you really wanted to cause him grief for minimum effort/cost, I'd contact Renault's legal department and tip them off that he's trademarked their logo. They may be inclined to take action to protect it...you never know.

[GJUK]

Yeah - email Renault and open a beer.

[neilsdavies]

Aug 10, 2018 21:13:58 GMT GJUK said:

Yeah - email Renault and open a beer.

They might be particularly interested as they relaunched the Alpine A110 recently...