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I apologise if this question has been posted elsewhere, i have spent weeks now trying to find a definitive answer, when i think i have found a thread or post that does, there seems to be yet another 'Ah, yes, but' to throw a spanner in the works....So here goes
I have a 1981 (Registered 1983) Bedford CF motorhome which i am doing a ground up restoration. It's based on the CF 280 or 2.8 ton chassis cab model. I have taken the body off and want to extend the chassis by 6 feet, i will be using a local engineering company who are experienced in extending chassis cabs used in recovery vehicles.
This will be the ONLY mod, apart from extending the body as well, that i plan to do. However, i have seen so many different opinions, it's left me with a headache. I'm tempted just to get the thing MOT'd and be done with it.!
So what am i faced with red tape wise?
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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As has been stated many many times on here and on other forums, despite much argument and discussion, If you cut ANY part of the original vehicle's monocoque or Chassis you render that vehicles registration and type approval invalid as it is no longer the vehicle you started with. You will then be required BY LAW to get the vehicle through Type Approval (BIVA) to be able to drive it on the public highway.
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Jan 19, 2019 15:27:16 GMT
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Thank you Lord13, this has been a nightmare to pin down the facts. I first contacted the DVLA who then told me to contact the DVSA which i did, even THEY couldn't come up with a concrete reply and directed me back to the DVLA. I've downloaded various documents from the DVLA website, and even after a couple of weeks of reading through these, there are contradictions all over the place.
I am concerned about 2 area's, the first being the vehicle ending up on a Q plate, but the biggest concern is taking it for an IVA test and finding that every component has to be updated to modern spec's making the project unviable.!
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Jan 19, 2019 16:04:37 GMT
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are you moving the axle at all?
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,664
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Chassis ExtensionDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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Jan 19, 2019 16:42:09 GMT
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are you moving the axle at all? 6 feet by the sounds of it ! I would download the IVA manual for the vehicle class and get reading to see if anything onerous leaps out. If you are keeping key major components an age related plate may be possible.
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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Not too sure on the age related plate business... I'm sure that only applies to 'rebuilt vehicles' not 'radically altered vehicles', but I could be wrong. As far as the IVA manual goes it would be good to read that cover to cover, plus get a copy of this: Dummies guide to BIVAIt's been created by the aficionado on all things BIVA to clear out all the myths and misunderstandings surrounding the test. You shouldn't be able to go wrong with that knowledge under your belt.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,664
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Chassis ExtensionDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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Jan 20, 2019 12:00:33 GMT
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Not too sure on the age related plate business... I'm sure that only applies to 'rebuilt vehicles' not 'radically altered vehicles', but I could be wrong. No, not wrong on the Radically Altered - One possible way would be with the kit converted process - as the chassis is being extended 6 feet a good deal of new kit will be required. It's a stretch - pardon the pun - but it may be possible if avoiding a Q is really important. There is a bit of a contradiction in the OP's original statement though, a ground up restoration and fixing up a vehicle whilst extending its wheelbase by 6 feet are rather different undertakings.
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Jan 21, 2019 12:31:42 GMT
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are you moving the axle at all? 6 feet by the sounds of it ! I would download the IVA manual for the vehicle class and get reading to see if anything onerous leaps out. If you are keeping key major components an age related plate may be possible. ONLY with an unaltered or NEW chassis . Cut about chassis = immediate Q . All details on how to plan for what reg you woudl like and how to achieve it available in Dummies Guid eto BIVA
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,664
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Chassis ExtensionDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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Jan 21, 2019 13:39:52 GMT
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From The .GOV
Get an age-related registration number You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with:
a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle.
Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get an age-related registration number.
But we have been here before have we not - I recall that statement above is incorrect even though its on the .GOV - I do wish they would update it.
Then again if its unaltered it can keep the original reg so is that correct. - would make sense if it was.
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Jan 21, 2019 14:23:54 GMT
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Yup, you remembered! I've given up tryingto get them to understand . It is totally contradictory to every other statement on vehicle identity simply by missing UN from the beginning of altered. Thye keep reading it but NOT understanding it.
If the chassis or monocoque was unmodified you wouldn't need the advice they give incorrectly as it wouldn't immediately fall outside the 8 points system! LOL
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Mar 29, 2019 10:40:40 GMT
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If you add length to the rear such as many motor homes do I can't see this will be a problem, might not get you 6 feet but you could probably go 3 or 4 quite comfortably.
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,632
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Mar 29, 2019 11:37:19 GMT
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If the wheelbase is staying the same, you can normally bolt on a rear extension.
Transits and the like have flat areas to do just this. It's how we make recovery trucks.
No idea what the bedford chassis is like up the rear...
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Mar 29, 2019 20:52:17 GMT
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If you add length to the rear such as many motor homes do I can't see this will be a problem, might not get you 6 feet but you could probably go 3 or 4 quite comfortably. I was thinking the same - however a lot of the motorhome conversions take a chassis cab - cut the chassis off flush with the rear of the cab then attach a custom built low slung - lengthened chassis & axles to accommodate a custom built motorhome body to it - granted they normally opt for a FWD chassis cab for ease of not having to mod the drive train They don't appear to have any problems in registering a vehicle with a modified chassis and there is no end of independent motorhome builders
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Last Edit: Mar 29, 2019 20:55:51 GMT by Deleted
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Mar 29, 2019 21:01:27 GMT
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Yes, they usually do it to new vehicles and it still has to have a BIVA.
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Mar 30, 2019 10:15:27 GMT
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Why do people insist on arguing or giving OPINIONS and NOT facts ?? If you alter the parameters on a chassis ,in any direction ( apart from adding internally without removing existing) on an EXISTING vehicle you require an IVA test . There are loads of coachbuilders out there will still say it isn't so built they are WRONG and out of touch . I can give a million links to what the law states but if you don't want to hear teh truth it will make no difference Seeing as I don't have a high post count , which is what most people base whether I know what I'm talking about I've been modifying for over 45 years, been involved with fighting legislation for as long and married to a manager of a DVLA LO office ...but heh, feel feel to believe an answer that suits
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Mar 30, 2019 20:40:21 GMT
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As Kapri has said, if you modify the chassis yourself or get a company to do it your looking at a BIVA test.
However.... It may be worth talking to one of the major coachbuilders or someone like wheelbase engineering, as some are approved by manufactures to make chassis/wheelbase modifications to an existing type approval. The vehicle is then tested at the coachbuilders POTF (privately owned testing facility) and so retains it's identity.
The sticking point is if such a type approval exist's for a Bedford CF!
The CF could come with a 106" or 126" wheelbase, and I think there was a 140" special order available. I have seen some stretched as a recovery truck, and I seem to remember BT had some as pole wagons, so there might be a precedent for it but it wont be cheap.
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Last Edit: Mar 30, 2019 21:02:07 GMT by carat 3.6
1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Mar 31, 2019 19:02:25 GMT
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If you add length to the rear such as many motor homes do I can't see this will be a problem, might not get you 6 feet but you could probably go 3 or 4 quite comfortably. I was thinking the same - however a lot of the motorhome conversions take a chassis cab - cut the chassis off flush with the rear of the cab then attach a custom built low slung - lengthened chassis & axles to accommodate a custom built motorhome body to it - granted they normally opt for a FWD chassis cab for ease of not having to mod the drive train They don't appear to have any problems in registering a vehicle with a modified chassis and there is no end of independent motorhome builders There is a slight but VERY significant difference on many coach built vehicles. You are NOT alowed a subframe between body and chassis as that is classed as a chassis modification. However you can mount an extended body which DOESN'T use an intermediate subframe. Body must always lift off chassis as a unit . Stretching / shortening a chassis with subframe or cut and lengthen is BIVA.
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Mar 31, 2019 19:05:49 GMT
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Likewise if the mods are done AFTER it has left the factory, but before registration, an IVA test is required BUT will be allowed a new registration. Once you do it to an already registered vehicle it is Q plate after IVA.
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Mar 31, 2019 19:06:11 GMT
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Duplicate post.
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Last Edit: Mar 31, 2019 19:06:56 GMT by kapri
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