Gasket sealants

[VW]

Ive had enough of my bedfords slant 4 leaking.
Ive regasketed the whole engine twice. It stays moderately leak free for a bit, then after maybe a year its bad again. It seems to just develop slight leaks from everywhere rather than one place.
I'm going to take the whole bloody thing apart again and redo every gasket/seal i can without taking the engine out.
I'm determined to stop it leaking (i know these are renowned for leaking).

So, can anyone recommend any decent gasket sealants for oil, water and fuel and maybe even the headgasket?
I wouldnt normaly use anything, no other engine ive rebuilt has really needed any, but this thing is a different story.
I really don't want to be doing this a third time!

[tristanh]

I use Dirko, for exactly the same reason I always put a thin film of sealer on each side of a gasket, oil and coolant, as older stuff doesn't seem to have good surface finish on the mounting faces compared to newer stuff.
And any engine I've built in the last few years stays dry.

[VW]

Just looked it up, seems its ok for use in every situation, including headgaskets, but maybe not fuel?

Not much fuel sealing needs to be done though, i was only being cautious with inlet manifold gaskets (damm things has fuel/air mix and water in it)

Seems it may well do what i need.
Thin smear on both sides i guess?
The mating surfaces all seem decent enough, it seems like more if a case of poor design and only cheap gaskets being available.

[gtviva]

I use Blue Hylomar in aerosol form for nearly everything including head gaskets, it allows you to get a nice thin even coat all over without tons squashing in or out the edges when you tighten stuff up

I have got the 2 piece neoprene oil seal to replace the rear main rope seal if you go down that far

[stealthstylz]

I only use Victor Reinz sealer, do a lot of work on engines that have issues caused by Hylomar/RTV type sealer being used in previous work. Just a thin smear rubbed between your fingers is plenty on gaskets, plus make sure things are torqued up correctly. Overtightening causes as many issues as things been too loose.

[VW]

Aug 9, 2019 12:13:53 GMT gtviva said:

I use Blue Hylomar in aerosol form for nearly everything including head gaskets, it allows you to get a nice thin even coat all over without tons squashing in or out the edges when you tighten stuff up

I have got the 2 piece neoprene oil seal to replace the rear main rope seal if you go down that far

I seem to remember that, the one round the crank that is half in the sump?
I 'think' that may be one of the few places its not leaking. Its hard to tell with how much runs down the block. I think the front might be. Not sure the sump will come off with the engine in, not looked into it.

Spray sounds good.

It seems to be leaking from the cam cover, the front end of the cam, under the cam box, under the oil pump maybe the rear of the cam, the sump plug, the gearbox bottom plate, possibly some water seepage from the headgasket, maybe the crank seals.

A couple of these I'm not surprised about (cam box gasket was a little damaged from new, cam seals were left in when cam box was tank cleaned!, sump plug i forgot and fitted the old washer)
The oil pump gasket and rocker gasket have been a constant struggle. It only leaks when running and is hard to pinpoint, hence the 'redo everything' approach.

If i can get to it to replace it, ill pm you about the neoprene seals.

[VW]

Aug 9, 2019 12:24:55 GMT stealthstylz said:

I only use Victor Reinz sealer, do a lot of work on engines that have issues caused by Hylomar/RTV type sealer being used in previous work. Just a thin smear rubbed between your fingers is plenty on gaskets, plus make sure things are torqued up correctly. Overtightening causes as many issues as things been too loose.

Are the issues you have come across mainly due to over use and lumps getting into oilways etc? Or are there other issues with that kind of sealant?

Is the one you use non setting then?

[stealthstylz]

Bits falling off and getting places they shouldn't or leaks are the main problems.

No it sets like RTV it's just a lot stronger bond. I keep meaning to glue the periphery's of a engine together with it then remove the bolts and see if it leaks, as long as you clean the mounting faces properly it's a proper curse word to get stuff apart again.

[gtviva]

The rocker cover gasket will always be the issue on these, I always make sure the cover is straight as they bend where the fixings are, stick the gasket to the cover first and let I go off, when you fit it just wet the gasket with a bit of oil

The weak bit on the head gasket is where the oil restrictor is fitted, some gaskets used an "O" ring and others used a copper washer, I always favoured the copper washer

I have also found everything seems to go out of shape on the mounting surfaces like the inlet manifold, water pump, stat cover

[VW]

Aug 9, 2019 12:47:33 GMT gtviva said:

The rocker cover gasket will always be the issue on these, I always make sure the cover is straight as they bend where the fixings are, stick the gasket to the cover first and let I go off, when you fit it just wet the gasket with a bit of oil

The weak bit on the head gasket is where the oil restrictor is fitted, some gaskets used an "O" ring and others used a copper washer, I always favoured the copper washer

I have also found everything seems to go out of shape on the mounting surfaces like the inlet manifold, water pump, stat cover

Thats how i fitted the cam cover this time round, but the gasket was the old one cleaned up. I had no choice at the time. Cover is straight, i make sure every time i take it off.

Pretty sure the oil restrictor has an O ring. Its bot leaking though, just think there might be signs of a slight water seep. Its loosing some water slowly but the heater pipe and bottom rad hose are a little swolen from all the oil leaks so it may be seeping through those too. Ill renew them.

When i first put it together it was fine, no leaks, but its had a new head gasket and the oil pump has been out a few times, dizzy many times, and although its had new gaskets each time ive just not managed to retain its original liquid retaining skills. Its always harder chasing leaks individualy than just striping it, cleaning everything and starting again.

It mainly seems to be running down the starter side of the block and down the front corner onto the water pipes and alternator. No matter how many times i clean it all down to try and pinpoint the leaks it always just seems to come from everywhere again.

Ive not seen a copper washer on that restrictor. Are the gaskets different? Can i just use either washer on any gasket?

[gtviva]

If you look at most 2300 head gaskets the hole where the restrictor is huge so you can use the copper washer like the 1600/2000 used, for some reason Vauxhall decided to do away with the copper washer and just use a tiny "O" without making the hole in the gasket smaller, the outcome being the tiny "O" fails or expands into the big void of the head gasket and finally blows out the side through the little bit of gasket left, does that make sense?!

Some like to torque the head bolts again once its been through a heat cycle which is a complete pain of a job as you well know!

[VW]

Ill look at copper this time round then.
No way I'm taking the cam box off and re torquing the head. Hate setting the cam belt and timing up on these things, access is too awkward and too much stuff needs removing! Would require a second complete gasket set too!
Might be easier on cars? Rad needs to come out and allsorts on CFs.

I don't think the factory manual mentions any need.

[droopsnoot]

The bottom of the gearbox isn't that surprising if it's anything like the four-speed I put in my Sportshatch - the gasket face on the gearbox casing looks like it was smoothed over with a rake.

Other than that, the cam cover is trouble as gtviva said earlier, and the cam carrier to head can seep a bit. There should be a paper gasket between the oil pump and the block, with sealant between the block and gasket, but not between the gasket and oil pump. Same for the distributor, sealant on the pump to gasket face, but not on the top surface. I always adjust the timing while the engine is stopped, so the engine is never running while those three bolts are loose. I have leaks, but not significantly from the distributor / oil pump area.

There is a rubber version of the cam cover gasket, but I've spoken to someone who bought one and reckons it didn't help at all. I made some rectangular washers to help spread the load on the cam cover bolts to help it not deform the cover.

[VW]

Aug 9, 2019 17:50:21 GMT droopsnoot said:

The bottom of the gearbox isn't that surprising if it's anything like the four-speed I put in my Sportshatch - the gasket face on the gearbox casing looks like it was smoothed over with a rake.

Other than that, the cam cover is trouble as gtviva said earlier, and the cam carrier to head can seep a bit. There should be a paper gasket between the oil pump and the block, with sealant between the block and gasket, but not between the gasket and oil pump. Same for the distributor, sealant on the pump to gasket face, but not on the top surface. I always adjust the timing while the engine is stopped, so the engine is never running while those three bolts are loose. I have leaks, but not significantly from the distributor / oil pump area.

There is a rubber version of the cam cover gasket, but I've spoken to someone who bought one and reckons it didn't help at all. I made some rectangular washers to help spread the load on the cam cover bolts to help it not deform the cover.

I made a new gasket for the gearbox (iirc) and used sealant. Its fine, but it leaks past the bolts!
Ill probably try some ptfe tape on them.

Ive read somewhere, in relatuon to higher spec 2300s, about drilling the webs in the cam box to help with oil drain? Ive heard mention of rubber gaskets too, but not heard any reports.
It does t seem to be distorting, just a hard design to get oil tight. I don't mind it seeping a little if it has to.

The cam box gasket had a crease in it. I thought i might get away with it but i don't think i did. I think the paper fibres were damaged. Id fit a thicker one but i had all the tappet adjuster screws reground and their size taken into account when the valve seats were done. Engine shop had the cam box gasket so they could set it all properly.

Good tip on the oil pump gaskets, hopefully i can get that sorted. I think that, and the front cam seal are my main issues.

[VW]

On a separate note, as there are a couple of vauxhall types here, anyone know about drilling the shifter side plate for a reverse switch on these old vauxhall 4 speed boxes?

[tristanh]

Aug 9, 2019 12:13:53 GMT gtviva said:

I use Blue Hylomar in aerosol form for nearly everything including head gaskets, it allows you to get a nice thin even coat all over without tons squashing in or out the edges when you tighten stuff up

I have got the 2 piece neoprene oil seal to replace the rear main rope seal if you go down that far

Hold up, gasket sealer on a head gasket??

[gtviva]

From memory re the reversing light, and it was a long time ago! if its just the Vauxhall box with the gear lever coming out of a turret on the side there were 2 types of cover, 1 was just a tin cover held on with spring clips which you couldn't fit the switch into or a more robust cover held on with bolts that you had to drill and fit the switch into

I should think you can use any type of plunger switch as its not or shouldn't be immersed in oil just lined up with the striking lever

[VW]

Aug 10, 2019 11:04:24 GMT gtviva said:

From memory re the reversing light, and it was a long time ago! if its just the Vauxhall box with the gear lever coming out of a turret on the side there were 2 types of cover, 1 was just a tin cover held on with spring clips which you couldn't fit the switch into or a more robust cover held on with bolts that you had to drill and fit the switch into

I should think you can use any type of plunger switch as its not or shouldn't be immersed in oil just lined up with the striking lever

Mine has a cast bolt on cover. For the bedford, reverse lights were an optional add on kit that came with a new cover. The switch has a long striker and they are hard to find and expensive (£50!).
I'm sure i could make any switch work.
I don't know how critical the hole position is though, ill have a look.

What was done on cars with this box? Did they have reverse lights from the factory, or optional too?

[gtviva]

With the cars they didn't have the turret so the switch fixed in place with an odd shaped bracket using the turret fixing points, the linkage was on the other side, it was also on option on most of the cars

[gtviva]